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Machiavelli in Context. His thoughts are even more important today.
The great courses - The Teaching Company ^ | unknown | Professor William R. Cook

Posted on 08/04/2007 3:03:50 PM PDT by jongaltsr

Everyone who has seriously studied the works of Machiavelli agrees that he believed in the superiority of a Republican form of government, defined as a mixed constitution with elements of monarchy (President), aristocracy (Senate, Congress plus others), and notably democracy for the common man.

After purchasing this program to study I have a better understanding of what is working right and what is going wrong in our country.

Some of the major points are that any successful Republics must control taxes as people who are over taxed are not easy to control. A well-governed people pay little in the way of taxes. They must also be safe on the streets and home. Bad people have to be dealt with in the harshest manner or people do not have faith in their leaders. Treat your enemies in the cruelest ways. The most stable countries are those that treat their enemies in this manner, yet treat their citizens with strict but fair and evenhanded rights and freedoms. Let people vent their anger in public.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: congress; freedom; machiavelli; politicians; senate
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I purchased the audiotape download. It is probably the best course I have taken in my ENTIRE life. You can purchase the course in the form of a book, audiotapes, and audio download, DVD or CD Audio. Once you have done so I would suggest we freepers start a forum to better evaluate such things as - The presidency, how do we need to control/train our military, what do we do with criminals (senators and congressmen also), etc.

I have always felt the Maciaveli was misunderstood but I never completely understood to what degree until getting this program course. Open your mind and set yourself free. Maciaveli had it right. Learned minds fear his ideas because they have agendas, which are counter productive to our freedoms and liberties.

One statement which says it all is this - Religion is useful for what methods are available to keep people focused, secure, organized? Religion provides structure to mens lives beyond laws and politics. Religion gives people a moral basis to live happy and procuctive lives. It controls peoples excesses and prevents mob mentality. Also leaders should be Religious as that guides the masses in proper conduct.

- AND HERE IS THE MAIN Point - If you have morals and religion you can get the guns and materials to defend yourself. Where this religion and arms are needed they can be introduced. If, on the other hand you have no religion it is with great dificulty that guns can be introduced.

Remember this - Corrupted people can not live free. A free state creates enemies. It threatens those that are not free thusly reation of a free state could greatly threaten security.

1 posted on 08/04/2007 3:03:56 PM PDT by jongaltsr
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To: jongaltsr

So if you are a Prince, is it better to be loved or hated?


2 posted on 08/04/2007 3:09:55 PM PDT by Sawdring
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To: jongaltsr

The great defect in our representative government is the committee system. Congressmen are elected to represent the people, but in order to gain the ability to get anything done, they have to, instead, represent committee chairs. There must be better way to manage legislative branches.


3 posted on 08/04/2007 3:10:16 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: Sawdring

Hated you damn fool!
(if you know what I mean).


4 posted on 08/04/2007 3:13:31 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gultch.)
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To: aimhigh
Absolutely. Committees fail every chance they get.
5 posted on 08/04/2007 3:15:08 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gultch.)
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To: Sawdring

0f course it is best to be very stict but fair.


6 posted on 08/04/2007 3:19:13 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gultch.)
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To: Sawdring

0f course it is best to be very stict but fair.


7 posted on 08/04/2007 3:19:16 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gultch.)
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To: Sawdring

Neither. As a Prince, it is best to be feared; which in the cultured sense, meant to be respected.


8 posted on 08/04/2007 3:29:23 PM PDT by tanuki (u)
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To: Sawdring

“love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.”

Not hate, but fear....pretty close to the same.


9 posted on 08/04/2007 3:30:21 PM PDT by dwhole2th (''God gets you to the plate, but once you're there, you're on your own". Ted Williams)
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To: jongaltsr

Thanks for thread. We can learn a lot from Nicollo, we need more Machiavellis and fewer Dick Morrises who is a False Prince (or Faux Prince).

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1840386/posts?page=24#24

“Princely advice”
“Lessons in Life and Leadership from Machiavelli” ( Yes, Machiavelli ! )


10 posted on 08/04/2007 3:33:01 PM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: jongaltsr

A well-governed people pay little in the way of taxes. They must also be safe on the streets and home. Bad people have to be dealt with in the harshest manner or people do not have faith in their leaders.

Is this Machiavelli guy running for public office ???


11 posted on 08/04/2007 3:36:35 PM PDT by Obie Wan
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To: Sawdring
I read and responded to your posting and then went outside to do some yard work. Had not been outside more then a couple of minutes and thought of a better question.
“Would it better to be Feared or Hated?”
I’ll let you answer that one.
12 posted on 08/04/2007 3:39:11 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gultch.)
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To: tanuki

you did not give me the option to be feared.
but your question was - to be loved or feared
- not hated for feared


13 posted on 08/04/2007 3:42:23 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gultch.)
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To: Obie Wan
A well-governed people pay little in the way of taxes. They must also be safe on the streets and home. Bad people have to be dealt with in the harshest manner or people do not have faith in their leaders. Is this Machiavelli guy running for public office ???

No but he was working for people who were.
14 posted on 08/04/2007 3:44:25 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gultch.)
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To: jongaltsr
One of my favorite political thinkers. His Discourses provide a close-up view of what the Renaissance thought of their Roman antecedents. Brilliant stuff.

One of his odder books is The Art Of War (no, not the one written by Sun Tzu). This is one of those dialogue-form treatments popular at the time that require a certain patience for the modern reader, but what one learns from it is how the military of the time functioned - Machiavelli was, at one point, Florence's minister of defense.

There was a reason they marched in the order that they did, for example, actually, a number of them, and that order differed depending on some distinct circumstances such as terrain and lines of communication, threat axis, and the commander's estimate of those balanced against his necessity to move. Any serious student of military science should read it and reflect at precisely what has changed...and what hasn't.

The Prince was a weird little volume, actually - certain commentators have gone so far as to suggest it was a satire on Machiavelli's part. It was written simultaneously with the Discourses - read together you get the sense that Machiavelli was lamenting the decadence of his own time in comparison to the ostensible virtu of the Roman Republic. Much of that applies to our own time as well.

15 posted on 08/04/2007 3:47:43 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: aimhigh
“The great defect in our representative government is the committee system. Congressmen are elected to represent the people, but in order to gain the ability to get anything done, they have to, instead, represent committee chairs. There must be better way to manage legislative branches.”

There is a better way. Give the federal government as little to do as possible. Hand everything else over to the state and local governments and to private enterprise. Yeah, state governments are run by committee but when they screw up, they only mess up a state and not the whole country. And when they get something right, then the other states can emulate them.

16 posted on 08/04/2007 3:49:22 PM PDT by Delacon
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To: jongaltsr

They say “Camel is a horse created by a committee”.


17 posted on 08/04/2007 3:49:23 PM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: Billthedrill

These books are among the best ever written. All educated men should read them. I used to buy them and give copies away for select persons to read.


18 posted on 08/04/2007 3:57:50 PM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (Swift as the wind; Calmly majestic as a forest; Steady as the mountains.)
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To: Delacon
There is a better way. Give the federal government as little to do as possible. Hand everything else over to the state and local governments and to private enterprise. Yeah, state governments are run by committee but when they screw up, they only mess up a state and not the whole country. And when they get something right, then the other states can emulate them.

Problem is that they NOW have the power and there is no way that I know of to wrestle that away from them. Since THEY make the laws WE can't impose laws except at the point of a gun.
19 posted on 08/04/2007 4:42:27 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gultch.)
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To: Delacon
There is a better way. Give the federal government as little to do as possible. Hand everything else over to the state and local governments and to private enterprise. Yeah, state governments are run by committee but when they screw up, they only mess up a state and not the whole country. And when they get something right, then the other states can emulate them.

Problem is that they NOW have the power and there is no way that I know of to wrestle that away from them. Since THEY make the laws WE can't impose laws except at the point of a gun.
20 posted on 08/04/2007 4:42:36 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gultch.)
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