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To: DoughtyOne
In fact the only people who want us out are Al Qaeda, the Taliban and the Democrats (read that marxists) in the United States and their global fellow travelers.

Wrong. The Iraqi gov't wants us to stay to do the work for them. A lot of the locals want us gone b/c we're foreigners in their country. Believe me, I talk to a lot of locals in their homes, in their neighborhoods. Most aren't openly hostile or anything, but they don't like our presence here.

The Kurds, on the other hand, very much want us to stay, and are very loyal to the U.S. From everything I've seen of them, they would be very strong regional allies. Of course, how we would explain that to Turkey would get tricky...

44 posted on 08/07/2007 1:30:51 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (Mosul, Baghdad, Karbala, Najaf, Sadr City...'round and 'round we go...)
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To: Future Snake Eater

I respect your take on this, but I think you’re confusing an idealistic take on the part of the Iraqis, with what they also see as the ultimate reality if we do leave.

The Iraqis know that if we leave the nation will sink into a massive bloodbath. Hundreds of thousands if not millions would die. Look at Vietnam and Cambodia for an example of what it would probably devolve into.

Yes, I do think the Iraqis want us out. As far as it goes, I agree with you. I don’t doubt that for a second, but I do think they are capable of seeing nations like Japan, Germany, France, the Philipines and other places where we’ve been and the societies the better for it after a period of reduced self-rule.

Ultimately, I have to say that I still thik the Iraqi citizens want us to remain until the situation stabalizes.

Now we may not like the time frame, but the world will be better if we stick it out and ten years from now ther is a stable moderate Iraqi nation. The only alternative IMO is to leave prematurely and watch the situation turn worse in Iraq than it was in Iran under the Ayatollahs.

Terrorist governance consolidated in Iraq would turn the whole region into one massive dark ages, our citizens as their focus.

If instead Iraq refuses to allow terrorists on it’s own soil, won’t that make it hard for terrorists to use it as terrorism central? And won’t that ultimately make it’s and our citizens more safe?

I think they can see that.


45 posted on 08/07/2007 2:10:51 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Victory will never be achieved while defining Conservatism downward, and forsaking it's heritage.)
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