Let Wisconsin Experiment with Socialized Medicine

Real Clear Politics ^ | August 08, 2007 | John Stossel

[Lancey Howard]

Wisconsin’s greatest export will no long be cheese but businesses and disgruntled tax payers.

And its greatest import will be unproductive bums and parasites.
Congratulations, Wisconsin. Love ya!

[HamiltonJay]

Wisconsin’s a great state, but Madison just threw them under the bus with this one. So far they have been able to hold onto the paper mills, and been able to shift much of the factory work they have lost to China to smaller companies through creative and generally successful policies.

This one however is going to bankrupt them, most likely.

HOWEVER.........

Wisconsin being the only state that guarantees health insurance availability may also make it a magnet for industries looking to dump their health care liabilities. If the tax to the government for not carrying health care as a benefit to ones employees is less than (or increases less than) the market rate private insurance, which has been rising at nearly 10% a year for the last few years Wisconsin could see a boom as companies move there to remove health care costs as a major draw on their bottom lines.

The issue will be how much Wisconsin can keep prices in check, by becoming such a large buyer, can they leverage that into controlling costs more effectively?

Will be an interesting thing to watch....

Personally, I think one way or another health care for all will be coming nationwide, as the large companies demand to get out from under their obligations for it, and argue the need to dump it in order to compete globally. I only pray it will not be a forced system, and private health care will remain available for those who desire it.

[irish guard]

As a lifelong resident of this tax hell, ...hell just became hotter. Look, do people really believe that whole companies will uproot their manufacturing plants and move them to Wisconsin? the cost of capital is pretty damn high when you contemplate having to move plants and people. I don't care how much your healthcare costs are affecting bottom lines.

Instead, ask yourself this question. Let's say you run a local restaurant that does pretty well, but you offer no healthcare to your employees. Now add a tax (oh hell, let's even call it a healthcare fee) that the employer has to collect and pay. Where the hell is that going to come from, thin air? Restuarants like this and small companies will ALL have to leave the state or go out of business. There are no additional dollars for this plan to pay for the fee/tax.

Then contemplate this, the biggest Democrat supporting union in the state, the "sacred cow" Teacher's Union provides benefits that cost twice as much as the plan endorsed by our state senate. Think those teachers are going to settle for this?

This plan is nuts and no one in any state in the country should try it.

[swilliams53]

I have a question? Will the ‘Healthy Wisconsin’ health care system treat and cure the chronic cancer called ‘Healthy Wisconsin’ that is inundating the state and it’s budget?

[HamiltonJay]

Irish,

I am not suggesting you are going to see a huge giant and instant influx of companies to Wisconsin. However when a company is debating where to put a factory or plant, you better believe that something like this will influence their decision.

if the savings are big enough, even established factories may move.... Health care is averaging a 10% annual inflation rate right now... and if the plan is solvent (not saying it will be) but if it is it will become a draw, even if it means large capital outlays up front. Saving a project 10% annual inflation on a very large portion of your earnings it doesn’t take too long to justify up front expenses.

I’m not saying Wisconsin’s plan is going to work, if it does however you are going to see some interesting things.

I am not for single payer health care, but the pragmatist in me see it is coming in this country one way or another. Large corporations are going pressure the government for it, and they are going to get it. The US is not going to be able to keep competing effectively against companies in nations where this expense is not something that companies must carry... they are going to pressure the fed for some sort of national health care so they can get out of those obligations and they will eventually get it. What that plan will eventually look like, who knows..but its going to happen.

Already you can see the shift in industry, when Hitlery was trying her health care thing in the early 90s big business were for the most part ardently opposed, now, businesses are moving quietly to the side of wanting it... its only a matter of time before we get some sort of nationalized health care.... The Fortune 500 get what they want, and they are arguing for it now... they’ll be clammoring for it inside of a decade, and have it in some fashion in 20 years or less.

[Lizavetta]

I only pray it will not be a forced system, and private health care will remain available for those who desire it.

You know darn well everyone who is able will be forced to pay for it, whether or not they use it.

But private health care will NOT go away. EVen in socialist Denmark where my mother grew up, there were always private hospitals and doctors.

I have to believe that the lobbyists for hospitals and doctors that want to make money and NOT become government drones will make sure the private option survives.

So we'll have the privilege of paying twice, like so many other facets of today's socialist environment.

[irish guard]

HamiltonJay,

Then let some other state turn into tax hell. The Senate plan calls for a $6,000 per employee cost. right now, the Teacher's Union covers about $20,000 per employee. No way will they agree to this plan and the only way they do is to ask the senate to increase the coverage to allow the Teacher's $20,000 number.

FYI, this plan as it is drafted, calls for a hike in taxes/fees, that will make Wisconsin THE SINGLE MOST HEAVILY TAXED STATE....period. Our taxes/fees will more than double. As I said before, small employers who do not offer healthcare will go out of business when imposed with this fee. They simply do not hav the money to pay for it.

As a practical matter, my cousin's wife is in the Assembly and they will not approve the plan and Governor Doyle ( a realy bed wetting lefy who never saw a tax he didn't like) is not in favor of the plan.

This plan is a bad idea and needs to go away.

[HamiltonJay]

By forced system I mean system where you CANNOT get health care other than from the government model such as Britains (which finally opened up recently).

I know everyone has to pay for socialized medicine, my concern is that no options will be left available, and you are stuck with your doctor or clinic and their decisions no other options.

[HamiltonJay]

Well personally I believe this will bankrupt WI if it were to become law... however the state that does offer universal health care will draw industry if one ever does pull it off, if it is run effectively.

As you properly point out, its passed the Senate, has no chance of being signed, and not likely to pass the house so Wisconsin will likely not be that state anyway.

I do also believe national health care is coming, just from a pragmatic standpoint.

[Lizavetta]

I understand your fears but I have to believe that too many docs and hospitals have gotten used to the money, not to mention Blue Cross and Blue Shield, and they will buy off enough politicians (see my tagline) to make sure this doesn’t happen.

[HamiltonJay]

Sorry, but when the Fortune 500 says they want it, they will get it. Politicians give the citizen scant thought and only as an afterthought near election time. A bone thrown here and there, but by and large, when big business wants something, the best interests of the nation or her people are damned.

[Rick_Michael]

"Sorry, but when the Fortune 500 says they want it, they will get it."

If the next president is a republican, and he can hold on for two elections...I don't think that will happen. By 2015 Medicare will be running deficits, and the national agenda will have to be on it...as it will grow. This is mostly due to the rising age level(s) and the high fertility rate of the baby boomer era. As illustrated.



The older population (ie 65 and up) generally consumes around 48% of medical costs in the country, so you can see the quagmire. Universal or Medicare will come-up with rather bad results. By 2015, you'll see every European country, Japan...all start to question their ability to maintain their budgets. They all have the similiar fertility problems. Thus all of them will head toward privatization, because their tax base will not supplement them enough.

I for one favor a relaxation of regulations and promotion of medical chose. Ever since the end of HMO's, medical costs have been surging. But since the choses are still rather inclusive, the 'chose' is rather limited.

1)Allow individuals to buy policies throughout the country.

2)Allow tax deductions based on medical expenditures (for the employee).

3)Instead of employees picking the policy and funding the deductible, give the policy chose to the employee and give them a reasonable amount of money for the deductible...like Xerox attempted to do...by giving 5k to each employee.

http://www.cchconline.org/issues/xerox.php3

A portion of this would go into a premium (with tax deduction), and the rest could be put into savings account/401k-like mutual fund/etc (not taxed)...Thus it could accumulate over the years and be specifically for medical purposes. The capital efficiency of such a program would be far better than what's currently happening.

4)Reduce all these mandates on medical care....essentially let the employee chose if they want a certain care involved in it all. Make it more dissected like car insurance.

-------------

Part of what I suggest is being slowly funneled in. I think corporation and businesses in general would favor my plan, because it's more likely to spur investment and keep costs down. It's the more private avenue for medical care, but it will need national help to direct this change.

The math of universal doesn't work out...hell the math of medicare doesn't work out. Capital has to be efficient and it has to be more chose-driven.