I'm more careful now.
Posted on 08/11/2007 12:26:02 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
“SEXIST!” (points finger at snoringbear) “THAT PERSON IS A SEXIST!”
Just warming up the thread...I have seen enough of these to know where it is heading...:)
Both Hillary and Obama are stupid idiots. Neither one can express a coherent idea unless they are notified in advance about what they will be asked. I don’t think it is right that these traitors want to decide to send women to war, they won’t be sending my daughters. Don’t these idiots know that woman are different from men. They just hate America and the more destructive ideas these fools can come up with the better. They don’t care who or why, they just feel a compulsion to destroy.
Most women DO revel in being feminine. It’s good for the men, it’s good for the women.
They did away with the PT “man carry” back when I was in [’68-’72] because the ladies couldn’t do it. Don’t know if they put it back in.
He’s just another Marine.
I'm more careful now.
Problems for the mission.
This is not the area for social statements.
(There are PRODUCTIVE places for women to participate wonderfully and essentially in the mission; but we're ignoring that!)
ready to be kicked...
There are military jobs women can do well, and jobs they can’t. The trick is to take emotion and political correctness out of the decision and look only at effectiveness. National security is too important to play social engineering games.
It never bothered me that there were jobs I was excluded from doing because of gender. I knew that I was good at the job I was doing, that it was important, and I did it to the best of my ability. There were times when I came up against unreasonable anti-female bias, but even the most obnoxious bigots shut up after I proved my dependability and competence.
Physical fitness standards should be matched to the job, not the gender of the individual. There’s a reason that the fitness standards of the SEALs differ from the standards of your average sailor. Some military jobs require a great deal of physical strength, others much less.
At the same time, even the staunchest traditionalists need to understand that women are here to stay in the military. Without a draft, there simply aren’t enough young men willing to serve to fill the ranks.
“Women are currently banned from combat. If we needed to draft Americans, would Clinton require women to sign up for the Selective Service in preparation for mandatory combat duty? Would you conscript America’s daughters? That’s the sad direction we’ve been heading in.” Kathryn Lopez
Wrong, Ms. Lopez. It is against the law to place females in combat rolls, but they are not being banned. An attack helicopter operating over a battle field is COMBAT. Women are flying such helicopters.
Women assigned to intelligence units are (or have been) in battle zones kicking doors in with males.
But we agree with your words, Ms. Lopez, “That’s (women being conscripted and the potential for them being in combat)the sad direction we’ve been heading in.” SAD indeed!
Why Christian Women Should not Join the Military:
A Plea from a Woman Veteran
By Mrs. Richard Downin
Jun 25, 2003
In the New Testament there are many direct commands that speak to women about how they are to live. There are also many examples of godly women who served the Lord. These commands and examples prove, I believe, that the military is no place for a Christian woman.
The first direct command is found in Titus 2:5, “To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.” Women are to be keepers at home. Not just “housekeepers,” but keepers at home. How can they keep (protect) the occupants of their homes if they are off fighting in a war? If they are not keepers at home they are blaspheming the word of God.
The next direct command I would like to examine is found in 1 Peter 3:4, “But it let be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.” To God the meek and quiet spirit is worth a great price. He values the gentleness of a woman higher than any other adorning that she can put on the outside. If a woman is to serve in the military, she can not be gentle and quiet. The military is an occupation that requires its members to continually prepare for war. War by nature is anything but a gentle and quiet procedure. War is about fighting, killing and destroying.
When a woman is in the military she needs to be agressive and dominant. It is unsafe if she is not. Her comrades depend on her to be that way. When I was a flight engineer, I worked with a woman pilot a few times who had a gentle voice. She was asked to speak louder, and many felt uncomfortable around her because she seemed to lack command. In her proper sphere, this gentleness is perfectly in its place; in the military it can be life-threatening. Men are better suited to command forcefully.
The next verse I would like to examine is 1 Timothy 2:9” “In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold or pearls of costly array.” The first phrase that stands out to me in this verse is “modest apparel.” When a woman is in the military, she must wear men’s apparel. The clothing that I had to wear was anything but modest. I wore a dark-colored T-shirt, battle dress pants, a battle dress jacket over the T-shirt and black combat boots everyday. When working inside, airmen are allowed to remove their jackets. And I can tell you from eight years experience that the men enjoy seeing the young female soldiers in their T-shirts.
There is another word that is in direct opposition to what is expected of a strong military airman. That word is “shamefacedness.” Shamefacedness is not talked about much anymore, nor is it practiced, even among Christian women. Nevertheless, it is in the Bible. To be shamefaced is to not stare at men or hold their gaze for a long time. When a woman is in the military, she works very closely with other men and must look at them. She may at times be tempted to hold their gazes while working alongside them.
In the same chapter of Timothy in verse 12 there is another command” “But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” Women in the military are almost always placed in authority over a male. There is a rank structure in the military that allows one to outrank someone else very quickly. This is clearly not God’s design for Christian women to order men around. This does not mean that women are not intelligent or strong; it simply means that women are not to rule over men.
The last and possibly most important direct command is in 1 Thessalonians 5:22: “Abstain from all appearance of evil.” When I was in the military I had to work very closely with men. Some men were married, some were divorced and some were single. There were several times when I had to work nighshift for a few months. Each time I was on this shift with only one other male. We worked all night together, just he and I. I truly believe that I gave the appearance of evil when I spent entire nights alone with men who were not my husband. I have also had to literally sleep next to men who were not my husband. Nights in the woods were spent close to these men in a tent or in sleeping bags. I also spent many nights sleeping next to other men in other areas. No godly Christian woman would dare sleep next to a man other than her husband night after night, but that is what the military requires. The military requires that you become like a man. You must do what the men do. This is not the place of any woman, but it is especially important that women who profess the name of Christ avoid all such situations.
Just warming up the thread...I have seen enough of these to know where it is heading...:)”
No problem’o rlmorel,
I will be your straight man :)!
Agree about where this string is headed. I have been in diversity training classes in the past where this subject has come up. It was alway amusing to listen to some of the yuppies take the position of “women should be allowed to serve in the combat arms just like men” because that is the avenue by which good promotions are obtained in the military. Of course, none of these people knew anything about the military - much less combat. But, their naive and uninformed comments were amusing and helped pass the time in these classes which was nice....
Excellent post.
Can't be, are they different than civilian men and women?
Take off their clothing and let's see!!!!!
You must be around my age (50) if you are an ex-Berkley lib.
I have found that many professional class women today need validation more than anything and eschew the sort of femininity I took for granted in women as a boy.
I was raised in the Deep South and now live in Nashville after decades abroad and here it is different.
Many well off women here are strident and expect their husband’s to be submissive. I see this a lot.
Bobbed hair at 30. Prematurely gray. No makeup. Plain clothing......even on otherwise attractive women.
Granted...there are places much different....southern California, Dallas, the Deep South, Miami....
it’s a far different world than I remember in the 60s and 70s of my youth
in my social circles I’m considered a misogynist at worst or a chauvinist at best
I first noticed this trend in the 80s in Manhattan.
Thanks for the perspective of a freeper woman
“I’ll never believe healthy countries get their women up front fighting for them. A limited number of women specialized roles sure that is one thing.”
(There are PRODUCTIVE places for women to participate wonderfully and essentially in the mission; but we're ignoring that!)
I agree with you, and I believe that as long as we require Selective Service registration, we should require it universally. If women are going to assume all the rights and privileges of citizenship, they should share in all of the burdens as well.
This is not to say women should be drafted for combat duty. As I see it, if a draft is necessary it means we need as many men filling combat roles as possible. A quick way to supplement our combat troops would be to retrain male servicemembers in support and administrative positions. Those newly vacated support jobs, particularly those done stateside, could often be done just as well by women.
Just because the average woman may not be cut out for the infantry does not mean she should be completely exempt from supporting the nation's defense. I oppose the draft in principle, but if we're going to have it, it should be enforced as evenly as is practical with our strategic needs.
The mission's the thing...not equality.
she-vet ^5!
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