I am convinced of 3 things about all of this...
1) The Brits will pull out leaving a power vacuum
2) That vacuum will be filled by Shiites (read: Iran)
3) In the end, no matter how long we or the British stay, I am convinced that the Iraqi’s will screw this up hugely. They are hellbent on tribal savagery and a thousand years of Western guidance, training, blood and treasure can’t change it because the Death Cult of Islam trumps absolutely everything.
But between now and then we should do our best and kill huge numbers of terrorists in the bug zapper we call Iraq.
“Hellbent on tribal savagery”
“The death cult of Islam”
I’m not saying they both don’t play a role in events there.
However, you cite them in a way that suggested to me ALL could be blamed on tribal savagery AND ALL could be blamed on the death cult of Islam (quoting you, not me...I know for a fact that every Muslim does not subscribe to his religion in the manner in which al-Queda does.)
Confusing, at least to me. If you’ve got ONE to blame everything on, you don’t need the SECOND to blame everything on, not to mention it’s unclear.
Some Iraqis are bent on tribal savagery. We have gangs in the US bent on similar. Some Iraqis subscribe to Islam as a death cult. But in al-Anbar province the Sunni Sheiks are killing the foreign and domestic al-Qaeda after becoming angry and disgusted with the violence they wreaked on anyone who stepped outside the lines of law that al-Qaeda drew when taking over an area. And it has been proven that most of that organization in Iraq was controlled by foreigners and muchly manned by foreigners, as opposed to native Iraqis.
Of the two forces you mention, tribalism seems the most relevant. The US military has tried working with the tribes and that has helped direct tribalism into a helpful force at the moment. Long term, who knows?
Saddam ruled by ruthless tribalism and caused a minority to oppress and brutalize a majority for decades. We in the West let it fester and fester and fester and looked the other way while the mass graves grew ever larger and the rape rooms and torture chambers expanded ever more. And under cover of THAT, Saddam did pose a danger to us and was about to win out against the “sanctions” (oil for food, anyone) and have the chance to become even more threatening.
Not sure what the exact answer is, if there is one, but the Brits don’t have it and the partisan politicians and State Dept. bureaucrats in DC don’t have it. The Military has done better than anyone else has, especially under Petraeus.
And that’s about all you can say.
Wow, someone around here the other day said this is what victory looked like; the British leaving (because it was mission accomplished).
“In the end, no matter how long we or the British stay, I am convinced that the Iraqi’s will screw this up hugely. They are hellbent on tribal savagery and a thousand years of Western guidance, training, blood and treasure can’t change it because the Death Cult of Islam trumps absolutely everything.”
Amen. Nation building was then and is now an idiotic idea and shame on Bush for attempting such nonsense in that sinkhole of a “country.”