Firms dock pay of obese, smokers

Washington Times ^ | 8/13/07 | Gregory Lopes

[melt]

Companies seeking to cut rising health care costs are starting to dock the pay of overweight and unhealthy workers.

Clarian Health, an Indiana hospital chain, will require workers who smoke to pay $5 out of each paycheck starting in 2009. For workers deemed obese, as much as $30 will be taken out each paycheck until they meet certain weight, cholesterol and blood pressure standards.

Clarian employees will also be required to take part in a health risk appraisal that will inform the company which employees smoke.

Such appraisals are becoming a popular tool for businesses to determine the health of their work force. The type of health benefit program Clarian is setting up could become a model for businesses in coming years, analysts say.

"We anticipate that more employers will require employees to complete a health risk appraisal and participate in screenings," said Tracy Watts, a health benefits consultant for Mercer Human Resource Consulting. "We also are seeing more interest in rewards for healthy behaviors such as participating in health management-related programs and for healthy behaviors such as not using tobacco products."

A survey of nearly 3,000 employers last year by Mercer found that 53 percent required a health risk assessment of its workers. That number is up from 35 percent in 2004.

And 62 percent of the 135 top executives who responded to a PriceWaterhouseCooper's survey this year said their companies should require employees who show unhealthy behaviors to pay a greater share of their health care costs.

Weyco, a Lansing, Mich., benefits administrator, recently adopted a policy to completely eliminate tobacco use from its work force. In 2003, the company introduced a policy of not hiring tobacco users and began offering smoking-cessation programs to employees, who were given a year to quit.

[this_ol_patriot]

So no health tax on the coke snorters in the boardroom?

[SoDak]

I’ve not ever made a claim on health insurance in my 22 working years, and cross my fingers that my good fortune stands up. I can’t think of anyone who smokes in my company having cost money directly from their smoking, but I know I’ve paid a boatload of money for other people’s kids, hypochondriac idiots who go to the doc at first sniffle, and weekend athletes.

[Sockdologer]

Time for another Roger & Me.

[SoDak]

So no health tax on the coke snorters in the boardroom?

He who pays the fiddler calls the tune. The only alternative is to get the goobermint involved and that can't be good for any of us. I've moved to the high-deductible plan with an HSA.

[microgood]

We had a health risk assessment this year that was voluntary and tied to a slight discount. Talk is, it'll be mandatory within two years. So far, no lawsuits, and I don't think we'll see one soon.

Your employer has no legal right to know what your blood pressure or cholesterol number is, or anything in your medical records. So when it becomes mandatory, the lawsuits will fly like snowflakes in winter.

[SoDak]

Your employer has no legal right to know what your blood pressure or cholesterol number is, or anything in your medical records. So when it becomes mandatory, the lawsuits will fly like snowflakes in winter.

What's to stop them from raising everyone's health insurance through the proverbial roof, then offering a very steep discount for an assesment? That wouldn't be "mandatory" but would almost guarantee adherence.

[jws3sticks]

I have other experiences with smokers, hyper tension, and all the rest of the stuff. The bigger the group, the lower the health insurance should be but it just keeps going up and up. It keeps the doctors as happy members of the local golf and yacht clubs. They earn it but it is a fact of life.

[this_ol_patriot]

The only alternative is to get the goobermint involved and that can't be good for any of us.

So what do you think is going to happen? The government is going to get involved anyway, they will be the ones to insure all the "high risk" people under the guise of providing equal health care for all when the corps no longer will. The companies want to say we provide health insurance BUT they don't want to pay in. You can bet that any money saved will not go back into wages but into fat cats pockets. For certain your taxes will be raised to pay for all of this.

[SoDak]

Yup. The fact is, many people will have a situation in their life where a doc will extend their life by quite a ways. It's going to cost a lot of money when it happens and someone will have to pay for it.

I heard once that the most significant portion of what this country spends on health is extending the life of people by 2 to 3 weeks that are terminally ill, taking extraordinary measures. I wonder if that's true.

[SoDak]

So what do you think is going to happen? The government is going to get involved anyway, they will be the ones to insure all the "high risk" people under the guise of providing equal health care for all when the corps no longer will. The companies want to say we provide health insurance BUT they don't want to pay in. You can bet that any money saved will not go back into wages but into fat cats pockets. For certain your taxes will be raised to pay for all of this. Oh heavens, I haven't the answer. I'm not sure anyone does. Healthcare is a commodity, and it's going to have to be paid by someone. I personally agree with someone above that I'd rather get more money and buy my own insurance, leaving the employers out of it. The problem there is that idiots won't buy it, opting instead to invest it into Playstation 3's and trips to Vegas, and the liberals will freak out about how heartless the country is, just like now, only worse.

[Cementjungle]

Just wait another 10 years or so when the study of genetics can identify genetic factors which affect health.

I wonder if smoking would cancel out a Parkinsons gene, since smokers for some reason don't get Parkinsons as much as non-smokers.

[monkeyshine]

I bet most of America didn’t know Barak smokes. Hey I don’t care that he does. I smoked for many many years. I just quit, in fact, 30 days ago today.

[2ndDivisionVet]

I receive medical care from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, thus I would not add to an employers risk. But even if I didn’t, can you positively prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that my weight is due to “unhealthy behavior” and isn’t genetic or caused by something else? Medical science can’t say that, but you know more than they do, is that it? Also, please explain to me why car insurance companies now use credit scores to determine your rates, since that has absolutely nothing to do with your driving record.

[jws3sticks]

SoDak,

The line I like, "Do I have another drink today or have another three days in a convalescent home when I am 91 and drooling or sleeping all day long?"

The answer is obvious.

[SoDak]

Bottoms up 8-)

[this_ol_patriot]

You know the problem came when the insurance companies starting becoming profit making machines. I mean the Blues in particular, at one time when they were truly "non-profit" they took in much more money in premiums than they paid out. That is the whole principle of group insurance, while sounding socialist it worked. A lot of everyones pay in a little to cover the few who will need the care. Problem is when they were just covering hospital medical care this worked, now everyone gets to go to the Doctor for a lot 10 bucks and the insurance is billed 70, that adds up to broke real fast.

What about a guy like me, in the 30 years I worked at this job I used my insurance twice, both times when my kids were born, the bills were about 5k each. I also smoked for 40 years. A guy I work with with is a "health nut" has been in for two torn rotators and for arthroscopic surgery for each knee and one TKA (total knee arthroplasty) i.e. kneecap replacement. This cost 10's of thousands of dollars. Now that he is older he is talking total hip. So he the proverbial 6 million dollar man who can never pay back what he used is going to get cheap insurance while me the "high risk" guy who paid many times over what he used is going to pay through the nose.

[DB]

Why should that be your employer’s problem? Shouldn’t be a problem between you and your insurer?

Does it matter why you’re fat (not saying you are)? If being fat is a health risk its a health risk. Insurance is supposed to be based on risk assessment. Low risk, low rate, high risk, high rate.

In today’s world the employer is the customer to the health insurance company not the employee. The employee just becomes something to be dealt with with the least grief on both sides. Not a healthy arrangement...

[DB]

The problem started when you were no longer the customer to be served.

[microgood]

What's to stop them from raising everyone's health insurance through the proverbial roof, then offering a very steep discount for an assesment? That wouldn't be "mandatory" but would almost guarantee adherence.

Some may try it, but many companies actually use health insurance to attract employees, so I guess it depends on how available replacement workers are.

Personally, I would quit if a company demanded my medical records out of principal, and I am in good health with no known medical issues.

The other problem is that often information about other family members is in medical records for helping in determining diseases that are genetically related and then the company would be demanding the whole family history, which means family members that do not even work for the company could sue.

I think experiments are going on in various companies, but there are huge roadblocks to continuing down this road very far, it may just be more psychological warfare to eventually get nationalized health care.

[this_ol_patriot]

That too, back before this HMO stuff my Doc’s price was clearly posted, pay it or leave. Then the insurance companies started covering Doctor visits, he still charged full price + paperwork costs for insurance filing. Then the “Health Networks” came and they told him you join us or you get no patients that are in our network, which in this blue collar town at the time meant most everybody. So then he could only charge 10 bucks to the patient and had to go to the insurance company for the rest. It wasn’t bad though his business tripled with whiney patients who thought a 10 buck trip to the docs was more fun than going to the movies.