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To: kabar
You think that today's public opinion on immigration is unique because you are involved in it. It is not. It is historically consistent.

As for the perm/temp visa, look to test vote in 2005. In that vote it was determined that 40 dems and 13 pubs would support a new guest worker program and amnesty onto the path for the illegals(McCain-Kennedy), while an additional 22 pubs would support the new guest workers and amnesty to guest worker for the illegals(Bush Plan).

With 13 plus 22 = 35 pubs supporting some form of comprehensive reform, it follows, that at any given time, the numbers could be massaged enough to get the required pub votes, depending on how many perm and temp. Which is exactly what happened with S 2611. There were not enough votes for cloture on McCain Kennedy, but if they massaged the numbers into Hagel-Martinez, 10 pubs woulds abandon Bush to support Hagel Martinez. In fact, Bush had to reluctantly abandon the Bush Plan.

Of course, now that the dems control Congress it is a different equation and if the dems can take the presidency next year, it will be another new equation.

65 posted on 08/21/2007 7:28:44 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
You think that today's public opinion on immigration is unique because you are involved in it. It is not. It is historically consistent.

What is happening today is historically unprecedented. It exceeds the Great Wave of immigration in 1910. The big change came in 1965 with the passage of the The 1965 Immigration Act: Anatomy of a Disaster . Prior to the act, the United States was overwhelmingly composed of whites of European descent (89% in 1965), with the only minority group of significant size being blacks (10%). Hispanics were about 1% of the population, By 2050, non-Hispanic whites will be 50% of the population and falling fast. Today, half of the children ages 0-5 are minorities. This massive demographic change in less than 100 years is the result of legal immigration policies and porous borders. What is of particular concern is that Hispanics and blacks have the highest high school dropout rates by far. The social pathology of what is happening is disturbing. We are creating a permanent underclass and the gap between rich and poor is growing as wages are depressed at the lower end of the wage scale by this influx of cheap, exploitable labor.

With 13 plus 22 = 35 pubs supporting some form of comprehensive reform, it follows, that at any given time, the numbers could be massaged enough to get the required pub votes, depending on how many perm and temp. Which is exactly what happened with S 2611. There were not enough votes for cloture on McCain Kennedy, but if they massaged the numbers into Hagel-Martinez, 10 pubs woulds abandon Bush to support Hagel Martinez. In fact, Bush had to reluctantly abandon the Bush Plan.

This issue transcends partisan politics. The political and corporate elite are out of touch with the American people. Each day the problem grows and metastasizes. It isn't going away. An economic downturn or a 9/11 type attack will exacerbate the problem. One in 8 residents of the US is foreign born, the highest in more than 80 years, and that will increase to one in 7 in the next few years, the highest in history. We are heading into uncharted territory.

We need to change our existing legal immigration policies including eliminating extended chain migration beyond the nuclear family, abolishing the visa lottery program that brings in 50,000 immigrants a year who can then sponsor more, revise the laws on birthright citizenship [anchor babies], and go to a merit based immigration system that brings in the talents and skills we need to be competitive in the global market.

Of course, now that the dems control Congress it is a different equation and if the dems can take the presidency next year, it will be another new equation.

If the Dems control the WH, it will be interesting to see what their policy will be. They won't have the cover of a Rep WH and will be held accountable for whatever is passed. If they legalize the status of the 12-20 million illegals already here giving them the ability to sponsor even more legal immigrants under chain migration, this country will be innundated within a decade. The political and social consequences will be immense threatening the future of this country as we know it. Immigration and out of control entitlement programs are the two biggest threats to this nation and they are related.

66 posted on 08/21/2007 7:58:20 AM PDT by kabar
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