Posted on 08/18/2007 11:25:10 AM PDT by tantiboh
With the exception of some massacres, committed by both sides, in the various Indian Wars, this was the massacre with the highest death toll in American history. Roughly the same number of people were murdered at Lawrence by Quantrill, but all were men and boys and therefore potential combatants, even if unarmed at the time, women being treated with the utmost respect throughout. At MMM women and children were slaughtered along with their husbands and fathers. IMO that makes it a greater atrocity. Do you disagree?
With regard to the Nazi comparison, please note that I said "in some ways." The death toll at Lidice was probably about twice that at MMM. And of course the total number killed in all German atrocities was many orders of magnitude greater, with the Nazi regime being pretty much an atrocity in its very nature.
But the comparison between the individual massacres at Lidice and at MMM is not entirely in the Mormon side's favor. This is primarily because of the cold-blooded and treacherous nature of the MMM atrocity. The Nazis did not pretend to be the Czechs' friends to get them to surrender on terms, and then violate those terms by turning on them at a pre-aranged signal and murdering them all.
Quite a few, perhaps most, women and children also survived the Lidice atrocity, while none survived MMM except a dozen or so very young children, allowed to liver because they were presumed to be unable to testify against the perps. To be fair, the Nazis later killed most of the Lidice survivors, more or less as part of their more generalized Holocaust.
You may be correct. But the release of many movies is delayed for many reasons, often for years on end.
And even then the Muslins are in cahoots with turncoat Americans or the Russian Mafia.
Liver = live.
Sorry.
~”That’s a tempting conclusion to draw, but was it widely known that Mitt Romney was going to be a presidential candidate when the movie was greenlighted?”~
That’s a valid point; the point I make is that the movie was -held- after production in order to harm Romney. It could easily have been released a year ago - it was shot in ‘05.
Romney’s pending candidacy was well known a year ago.
“Only 24 managed to portray muslims as terrorists in post 9-11.....”
Don’t forget Sleeper Cell. Good stuff, that. The movie, “The September Tapes”, though. That’s a whole other level of post 9-11. And, it’s true.
Let me tell you why I disagree.
If you are correct, it would surely have been better tactics to delay release till next year, in the hopes that Mitt would win the GOP nomination. Then release the movie, causing him to lose the general election.
Released this year, all it can do is make it more likely that another, perhaps more electable, candidate will be up against Hilary in the general election.
Come to think of it, I’ve got a better conspiracy theory.
The release was delayed to knock Mitt out of the primary, ensuring Thompson the nomination. You know how those showbiz people stick together!
:)
~”Not really. About average. Movies take a very long time to shoot and release today as compared to the old days. I’m not really sure why.”~
“September Dawn” is a pretty basic movie. Not a lot of technical challenges or special effects.
We get a Harry Potter movie almost every year.
We got the Lord of the Rings over a two-year span. Return of the King, which holds the record for special effects sequences, was produced in one year.
If September Dawn was shot in 2005, there is no reason it couldn’t have been released in 2006. It only takes a few months to do the editing and put together the score, even for a movie with a relatively low budget.
The ulterior motive here is unmistakable.
Not seen the movie nor do I plan to . However for Hollywood Mormoms are considered “conventional”Christian and white male Christian at that.
And we all know how Hollywood protrays traditional values, bible believing people.....
I consider the matter to be obvious based on common sense. It’s plain that the comparison of MMM - a one-time tragedy - with the even some of the atrocities of the Nazis - a systematic genocide - is well beyond the pale. If you cannot agree on that point, then we have no common foundation from which to form an intellectual discussion on the topic.
If you want more in depth history on this first terrorist act by a religious cult on American soil get this book.
Life in Utah or The Mysteries and Crimes of Mormonism: Being an Expose of the Secret Rites and Ceremonies of the Latter Day Saints written in 1870
With a full and authentic history of polygamy and the Mormon sect from its origin to the present time. Beadle, author and editor of the Salt Lake Reporter, was unfriendly to the Mormon Church, a passion that becomes evident in his writings, including this volume. Contents: History from the Founding of Nauvoo till 1843; Mormon Difficulties and Death of the Prophet; Two Years of Strife-Exodus from Illinois;
From the Nauvoo Exodus to the Mormon War in Utah; The Bloody Period; Gentiles in Utah; First Views in Utah; Two Weeks in Salt Lake City; Trip to Bear River and Return; The Conference and Its Results; Analysis of Mormon Society; Analysis of Mormon Theology; Theoretical Polygamy-Its History; Practical Polygamy; The Mormon Theocracy; Recusant Sects of Mormons; Geographical Features; Material Resources of Utah; Mormon Mysteries-Their Origin; Present Condition and Prospects; and Redeeming Agencies. See other titles by this author available from Kessinger Publishing.
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Utah-Mysteries-Crimes-Mormonism/dp/1417975725/ref=sr_1_1/104-5439855-4642303?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187471638&sr=8-1
~”You may be correct. But the release of many movies is delayed for many reasons, often for years on end.”~
Yes, I wonder what the reason might have been in this case...?
Correction:
Not seen the movie nor do I plan to . However for Hollywood, Mormoms are considered ?conventional?Christians and white male Christians at that.
And we all know how Hollywood protrays traditional values, Bible believing people.....
I think critics are going to hate it, the film is going is going to bomb and the producers have been moving back the release date to avoid competing with blockbusters this summer. There’s just not much interest in something that happened 150 years ago. The film “Alamo” is based on a very famous event but bombed horribly. Also, nobody really believes that Mormons are terrorists, so it won’t have the same impact as say a United 93.
Sigh!!
Another Corrrection:
“conventional” Christian not “?conventional?Christian”
Not a slam at Mormoms. Computer error.
Speell check does not like “cut and paste”
“’Hollywood is busy, busy, busy working for “their girl”, Hillary.’
The movie was shot mostly in 05, with pre-production and planning usually starting two or more years before that.
It doesn’t seem likely that anybody could have foreseen in 2002 or 2003 that an anti-Mormon movie released in 2007 would be helpful to Hillary’s candidacy.”
Well, I have liked Romney ever since he and his team pulled off the Utah Winter Olympic Games without a hitch. That was post 9-11, and smooth as silk. I wouldn’t be surprised if some political strategist developed a scenario in some war room somewhere that such a movie as this might be great to have in a hip pocket just in case, not just for HEllary, but any Dimwitocrat.
Pre-production of Return of the King started in mid-1997. It was shot simultaneously with the other two segments from October of ‘99 to December of 2000. It was released in December of 2003.
I’m not as familiar with the HP movies, but I seriously doubt they release one and then start work on the next.
The difficulty is that there are no more studios in the old sense of the word, organizations that make movies from start to finish, with actors, directors, cinematographers, etc. all on staff; and with financing sufficient for most projects already in place.
In today’s movie world, every movie, or at least every fairly high-budget movie, has to have an entire company built to produce it. Developing the treatment, putting together financing, recruiting staff and crew. All this has to start more or less from scratch with each movie. It takes time, generally at least several years.
Much of this time is consumed trying to put together financing. Obvious no-brainer smash hits like the Harry Potter movies probably don’t have much trouble with that. :)
I was not comparing Nazis to Mormons, and I apologize if I gave that impression.
I was comparing one event to another. It is interesting that you don’t want to discuss my comparison between events, only stating that the comparison isn’t valid.
You may be correct that we have little to say each other on the topic as you use the term “tragedy” to refer to the events at MM.
Dictionary.com definition: “A disastrous event, especially one involving distressing loss or injury to life: an expedition that ended in tragedy, with all hands lost at sea.”
There have been a number of extended discussions on FR about the appropriateness of using this term for the events of 9/11, which is common in the MSM. “Tragedy” is more appropriately used for something that happens outside human control, and it implies to some extent that no person or group of people is really responsible for what happened.
MMM, 9/11 and Lidice were not tragedies. They didn’t “happen.” They were all three planned in advance, orchestrated and perpetrated. Individual people were responsible.
That said, I have found the Mormon people here to be forthright and honorable, although sometimes quite quirky. The owner of the company I work for is what you might call "tough but fair". I find that refreshing in so many ways....
That's my take on the whole matter of todays Mormonism in a nutshell. I choose not to dwell on the history of any faith in todays world, other than Islam, whose practioners seemingly have not moved forward or back...they will kill or enslave me if I do not follow them.
FMCDH(BITS)
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