Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

No Christian owes the state primary obedience. The Christian owes God primary obedience. And when the two conflict, the Christian must always follow the divine law first. So the Bible has legitimized civil disobedience of unjust and oppressive laws. For those shallow and ignorant Christians who think one must submit to ALL laws, no one better than Martin Luther King. Jr set them straight in his famous "Letter From A Birmingham Jail." In it, he explained that Christians were NOT advocating anarchy or lawlessness. But they certainly did want to obey God's laws and the way to resolve their dilemma was to ensure man's laws are in harmony with the law of the Creator. One must always seek to do good and the line "Render Unto Caesar" must never be used to raise the state above God.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

1 posted on 08/27/2007 6:08:21 AM PDT by goldstategop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: goldstategop
Christian owes God primary obedience

Although true, the problem is with the interpretation of just exactly how this is carried through to fruition. There are 32,000 denominations who all wish to give God primary obedience........and the question is why is this the case.

2 posted on 08/27/2007 6:21:18 AM PDT by badpacifist ("I don't think you understand these boys killed my dog" Bob Lee Swagger)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: goldstategop

But see the Book of Daniel. Christians are not required to take on the state when it promulgates evil laws that are contrary to God’s laws. That is an individual choice. We must simply stand straight when told to bow to an idol, or pray in our homes even if barred from doing so by the government. We are not required to announce that we are standing straight or praying, or draw the attention of the state to our actions, or politically challenge the state if doing so martyrs or harms us. My reading of Daniel is also that we do not lie when the state notices our actions, but we explain why, even if that does cause us to risk being martyred or punished.


3 posted on 08/27/2007 6:23:32 AM PDT by Greg F (Ann Coulter is smarter than most of us and quicker witted than all of us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: goldstategop

However, in none of the biblical accounts of heroes obeying God rather than man is there any hint that they claimed to be immune from punishment by man for that reason.

The whole point of civil disobedience is that one willingly accepts the punishment for breaking the law.


4 posted on 08/27/2007 6:39:48 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Scratch a liberal, find a dhimmi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: goldstategop
I have always believed that a Christian, or any man, is under no obligation to obey unjust laws.

But then again, I've been known to have problems with authority...
6 posted on 08/27/2007 7:03:52 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Keep your friends close; keep your enemies at optimal engagement range)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: goldstategop

However, in none of the biblical accounts of heroes obeying God rather than man is there any hint that they claimed to be immune from punishment by man for that reason.

The whole point of civil disobedience is that one willingly accepts the prescribed punishment for breaking the law.


7 posted on 08/27/2007 7:10:02 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Scratch a liberal, find a dhimmi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: goldstategop
This fits in well with the concept of natural law and the natural rights of man. According to our founders concept of natural law we have freedom of conscience and it is not governments business to look into mens souls. Only a tyrannical government insists that all pray or not pray in the same way, and under such a system a man has an obligation to NOT obey laws that contradict natural law.

Similarly only a tyrannical government seeks to disarm its citizens. Under such a system a man has an obligation to NOT obey such laws and a free man will obey the natural law which says to arm himself against tyranny and the brutality of other men. Libs who say we should repeal the Second Amendment do not understand that it is not a right GIVEN by government, it is a natural right contradicted only by tyrannous government and not to be obeyed by men who by Divine Right are free.

11 posted on 08/27/2007 7:21:27 AM PDT by allmendream (A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal. (Hunter08))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: goldstategop
"Render unto Caesar....

I wonder how Americans would take to the occupation of their homeland.

13 posted on 08/27/2007 7:26:28 AM PDT by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: goldstategop

And this exact line is usually used (here on FR, plenty) to justify every kind of tax, including income tax. Because conveniently, that is exactly the context of the story.

Oh, there are so many ways Christians use Christ to justify their behavior!


21 posted on 08/27/2007 9:45:49 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: goldstategop

IMHO, the article fails to convey the Word as intended.

Our Lord and Savior responded to those queries with a response, not a reaction.

Those who place national government above the Plan of God attempt to counterfeit His Paradise with a cosmic system of order independent of God.

The issue of sin as an impediment to a relationship between God and man was settled on the Cross as the first coming neared its completion. The issue of good and evil still has not been settled for the angelic domain.

The impediment of sin for man to have a relationship with God is settled in a moment’s notice by simply turning back to God and confessing any and all known and unknown sins by 1st John 1:9.

Good and evil must be resolved over time.

All authority is granted by God. Accordingly, believers are instructed to obey all authority (legitimate authority, not illegitimate authority), because God has granted it directly and indirectly.
There are many tests ongoing to prove without doubt that any plan independent of God will fail in the long term to produce perfect justice and perfect righteousness.

When the question was placed to our Lord and Savior as to which authority was to be obeyed, the answer was simple. By giving to God what is His, we remain obedient to legitimate authorty and by giving to Caesar what was his, we also obey legitimate authority. Caesar then becomes wholly accountable to God for his actions and decisions within the authority granted him by God. Where Caesar chooses to act independently of God, then the failures of that system of government will ultimately become evidence for all of creation to witness as testimony against any appeals trial of the Adversary.

On the contrary, there are many believers who fall into the trap of thinking that by substituting an emphasis on legitimate behavior will afford them a worldly system of justice and righteousness, thereby improving the life they live, creating a counterfeit paradise on earth prior to His return and His Kingdom.

National governance is one of four known divinely established institutions for believer and unbeliever alike, which if they obey the legitimate authority within those institutions may live in freedom with productive lives. Our Lord simply respected both the divinely established institution of national governance, while also remaining in faith with the Father.

I don’t observe so much where civil disobedience is promoted in Scripture. Obedience to legitimate authority is mandated, which if viewed from a worldly perspective, independent of God, might be interpreted as civil disobedience.

Take for example when our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus was being placed under an illegitimate trial by Pilate and the chief priests. In Matt 27:11-15, Mark 15:2-5, Luke 23:3-6, and even in John 18, we have marvelous testimony by our Lord and Savior as to how to respond, not react, to worldly pressures which might be used to tempt us to step out of faith from Him.

In each of these cases, our Lord was not disobeident to legitimate authority, but instead respected the authority given to those who attempted to judge Him. Note also, that the strength of volition of the believer doesn’t entail the believer must control events. Instead, by remaining in faith through Christ in all things, God does all the work and provides for His loved ones. Even unto death, He remains just and righteous. There have been crowns established for his believers who persevere in faith through Him to be given us at the bema seat. For every cursing, there is a blessing for those who remain in faith through Him.


24 posted on 08/27/2007 10:13:08 AM PDT by Cvengr (The violence of evil is met with the violence of righteousness, justice, love and grace.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: goldstategop

At what point do the state’s laws (like the over 50% taxation we are now forced to pay at the point of a gun) become evil and in conflict with God’s law?

If Ceasar says we should pay 95% taxes, are Christians to submit?


27 posted on 08/27/2007 10:22:01 AM PDT by subterfuge (Today, Tolerance =greatest virtue;Hypocrisy=worst character defect; Discrimination =worst atrocity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson