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Pope supports welfare state
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | 29 August 2007 | Walter E. Williams

Posted on 08/29/2007 9:34:20 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

London's Times Online recently reported that, according to Vatican sources, Pope Benedict XVI is working on his second encyclical, a doctrinal pronouncement that will condemn tax evasion as "socially unjust." The pontiff will denounce the use of tax havens and offshore banking by wealthy individuals because it reduces tax revenues for the benefit of society as a whole.

Pope Benedict could benefit from a bit of schooling. Tax avoidance is legal conduct whereby individuals arrange their affairs so as to reduce the amount of income that is taxable. Tax avoidance can run the gamut of legal acts, such as investing in tax-free bonds, having employer-paid health plans, making charitable gifts, quitting a job and banking in another country. Tax evasion refers to the conduct by individuals to reduce their tax obligation by illegal means. Tax evasion consists of illegal acts such as falsely claiming dependents, income underreporting and padding expenses.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: catholicbashing; pope; popebenedict; socialism; taxes; walterwilliams; welfarestate
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Since the Vatican is so rich anywise, maybe the pope can pay my share of the "social benefit" of taxation?
1 posted on 08/29/2007 9:34:24 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
This is news? Please...

The Roman hierarchy has always leaned socialist/collectivist when it comes to economics, except they call it being "communitarian."

2 posted on 08/29/2007 9:40:53 AM PDT by TonyRo76 (American by birth. Patriot by choice. Christian by grace.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
How many Vatican City citizens are tax evaders?
3 posted on 08/29/2007 9:42:08 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
a doctrinal pronouncement that will condemn tax evasion as "socially unjust."

Sounds to me like he's against illegal immigration!

4 posted on 08/29/2007 9:43:06 AM PDT by Mygirlsmom (I practice Calorie Offset Trading: I eat a candy bar then pay my kid $10 to run around the block)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Pope supports welfare state

Supports it? He runs one! ;)

5 posted on 08/29/2007 9:43:06 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Wise men don't need to debate; men who need to debate are not wise." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

All you have to do is contact the Kennedy family and put your money where they do so you can evade taxes as they do. Then vote to raise everyone elses taxes, the way they do.


6 posted on 08/29/2007 9:43:43 AM PDT by RC2
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Interesting coming from a whole mini country of the non taxed elite, lecturing us about taxation.

"render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's."

7 posted on 08/29/2007 9:43:55 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
His is a religious view, which is to share all you have with the poor.
The problems are that even the Bible says the poor will always be with us. Plus it is almost always the case that handouts cripple people beyond temporary help.

I bet we won’t hear the Pope talk against the Church’s tax exempt status in many places around the world.
Is he going to fight to have the Church pay taxes now? Didn’t think so...

8 posted on 08/29/2007 9:44:09 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
"Tax avoidance is legal conduct whereby individuals arrange their affairs so as to reduce the amount of income that is taxable. "

What's it called to game the tax system so tax havens and offshore banking by wealthy individuals are created to provide tax avoidance?

9 posted on 08/29/2007 9:45:13 AM PDT by ex-snook ("But above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

What about all the money the government wastes?

Should I stop making purchases online too?


10 posted on 08/29/2007 9:46:30 AM PDT by JZelle
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
"The pontiff will denounce the use of tax havens and offshore banking by wealthy individuals because it reduces tax revenues for the benefit of society as a whole. ",/i>

Ok, fine, so I guess all Churches will pay property taxes and have their books audited and pay corporate taxes.

11 posted on 08/29/2007 9:47:16 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Islam or lawyers. Which one is lower on the food chain?)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Welfare State

Cool! I'm tired of working and from what I've seen if you go on welfare you get a new car, free health care and a big screen TV!

12 posted on 08/29/2007 9:51:51 AM PDT by badpacifist ("I don't think you understand these boys killed my dog" Bob Lee Swagger)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Whatever happened to “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods”?


13 posted on 08/29/2007 9:59:02 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Wurlitzer
...Churches will pay property taxes and have their books audited and pay corporate taxes...

You beat me to it!

The point is solid: tax avoidance can't be OK for the clergy and still be bad for the followers.  They have to know that this position will be seen as hypocracy.

14 posted on 08/29/2007 10:05:31 AM PDT by expat_panama
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To: Mr. Jeeves

In reality, he’s just another elected official.


15 posted on 08/29/2007 10:06:57 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
I'll wait and read the encyclical myself. Too many times, his words have been taken entirely out of context by the MSM and then pounded on by well-meaning conservatives who take the MSM's quotes as accurate. In this, case Walter Williams is shooting the Vatican on the information of the London Times.

In Mr Williams own quotes regarding Pope Benedict's views, I can see much room for interpretation:

- Tax evasion is unjust... and illegal as Mr Williams pointed out.

- Taxes do benefit society as a whole... where do you think roads, defense and diplomacy get their funding? Benefiting society doesn't only mean 'welfare' except in the constitutional sense of 'promoting the general welfare'.

Mr Williams has taken the London Times's interpretation as holy writ and written a piece that infers the Pope's message while specifically denouncing the OECD... with whom he assumes the Pope agrees.

Sorry, not biting on this one until I see what he actually wrote (will write).

16 posted on 08/29/2007 10:07:51 AM PDT by pgyanke (Duncan Hunter 08--You want to elect a conservative? Then support a conservative!)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
World Nut, World Nut, World NUT DAILY!

Pope Benedict XVI is working on his second encyclical, a doctrinal pronouncement that will condemn tax evasion as "socially unjust."

Working on. That means it hasn't been released yet. That doesn't stop the newest tabloid on the net (WND) from pronouncing from the hilltops that the Pope denoucnes all tax breaks though!

Here's (probably) what it's REALLY going to say: That anyone who avoids paying taxes ILLEGALLY is not "doing their part". And indeed, isn't that what SCRIPTURE says too?

Sheesh. WND. Why do I even bother?

17 posted on 08/29/2007 10:15:04 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
The Pope can KMA, provided he removes his pointy hat first. What an idiot! I suppose it is also wrong to hide money from thieves by keeping it in your shoe.

The Catholic Church hates success. I am glad that I have left them behind.

18 posted on 08/29/2007 10:16:49 AM PDT by shempy (EABOF in '08)
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To: FourtySeven

World Net Daily is deeply anti-Catholic. I’ve complained to their editors repeatedly. I’ve given up. They just don’t even wish to get things accurately about Catholics. They routinely link to the NYSlimes and other MSM as their source for things Catholic in the news. They’d never trust the Slimes on other matters but they don’t have a scintilla of curiosity about the accuracy of the Slimes on Catholic matters. They never bother to vet such articles with Conservatives who are faithful Catholics to see where the spin lies but instead just throw it up to see what sticks to the wall. That’s because deep down they have contempt for Catholics.

Yes, indeed, WorldNutDaily has become a tabloid, in other ways too (sensational/titillating soft porn stuff, tin-foil hat stuff, among other things.)


19 posted on 08/29/2007 10:21:31 AM PDT by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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To: pgyanke

***I’ll wait and read the encyclical myself. Too many times, his words have been taken entirely out of context by the MSM and then pounded on by well-meaning conservatives who take the MSM’s quotes as accurate. In this, case Walter Williams is shooting the Vatican on the information of the London Times.***

FINALLY, someone makes sense.

But, you’re wasting your time. The Catholic haters are having too much fun putting down the Catholic church.


20 posted on 08/29/2007 10:22:43 AM PDT by kitkat (I refuse to let the DUers chase me off FR.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Were I WW and WND, I would wait until the encyclical comes out before attacking it. News sources like the London Times are notorious for gleefully getting stories about Catholicism and the papacy dead wrong.

There is a long tradition of trashing Catholics in the UK. Just ask the Irish.
21 posted on 08/29/2007 10:26:21 AM PDT by Antoninus (The greatest gifts parents can give their children are siblings.)
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To: pgyanke
I'll wait and read the encyclical myself. Too many times, his words have been taken entirely out of context by the MSM and then pounded on by well-meaning conservatives who take the MSM's quotes as accurate. In this, case Walter Williams is shooting the Vatican on the information of the London Times.

It's pretty sad when even on FREE REPUBLIC, it takes 16 posts for someone to say something even close to coherent.
22 posted on 08/29/2007 10:27:40 AM PDT by Antoninus (The greatest gifts parents can give their children are siblings.)
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To: shempy
The Catholic Church hates success.

No, it doesn't.

I am glad that I have left them behind.

I'm not and I will pray for you... May God bless you and hit you upside the head with His two-by-four of truth. Amen.

23 posted on 08/29/2007 10:28:19 AM PDT by pgyanke (Duncan Hunter 08--You want to elect a conservative? Then support a conservative!)
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To: kitkat
The Catholic haters are having too much fun putting down the Catholic church.

They do seem rather gleeful...

24 posted on 08/29/2007 10:29:05 AM PDT by pgyanke (Duncan Hunter 08--You want to elect a conservative? Then support a conservative!)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Pope Benedict could benefit from a bit of schooling. Tax avoidance is legal conduct whereby individuals arrange their affairs so as to reduce the amount of income that is taxable.

Unlike World Nut Daily, the pope understands the difference between justice and legality.

The Church is not a proponent of Socialism and, in fact, has strongly condemned Socialism in many encyclicals.

For, indeed, although the socialists, stealing the very Gospel itself with a view to deceive more easily the unwary, have been accustomed to distort it so as to suit their own purposes, nevertheless so great is the difference between their depraved teachings and the most pure doctrine of Christ that none greater could exist: "for what participation bath justice with injustice or what fellowship bath light with darkness?"(7) Their habit, as we have intimated, is always to maintain that nature has made all men equal, and that, therefore, neither honor nor respect is due to majesty, nor obedience to laws, unless, perhaps, to those sanctioned by their own good pleasure. But, on the contrary, in accordance with the teachings of the Gospel, the equality of men consists in this: that all, having inherited the same nature, are called to the same most high dignity of the sons of God, and that, as one and the same end is set before all, each one is to be judged by the same law and will receive punishment or reward according to his deserts. The inequality of rights and of power proceeds from the very Author of nature, "from whom all paternity in heaven and earth is named."(8) But the minds of princes and their subjects are, according to Catholic doctrine and precepts, bound up one with the other in such a manner, by mutual duties and rights, that the thirst for power is restrained and the rational ground of obedience made easy, firm, and noble.

On Socialism
Pope Leo XIII

Rather, the Church has constantly taught the principle of "subsidiarity," which is the principle which states that matters ought to be handled by the smallest (or, the lowest) competent authority.
25 posted on 08/29/2007 10:29:39 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Antoninus

I wonder if Rush knows that his sometime replacement is anti-Catholic.


26 posted on 08/29/2007 10:31:38 AM PDT by kitkat (I refuse to let the DUers chase me off FR.)
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To: pgyanke
I'll wait and read the encyclical myself. Too many times, his words have been taken entirely out of context by the MSM and then pounded on by well-meaning conservatives anti-Catholics who take the MSM's quotes as accurate.

Now it's perfect.

27 posted on 08/29/2007 10:31:49 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Aquinasfan

Facts? Logic? Truth?

They have no place on this thread.


28 posted on 08/29/2007 10:32:31 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: kitkat
I wonder if Rush knows that his sometime replacement is anti-Catholic.

Careful. You are imputing evil motive to what could easily be explained by misplaced enthusiasm. I'm inclined to think Walter Williams simply chose this opportunity to expose the OECD since they get a far greater specific mention in his article.

29 posted on 08/29/2007 10:34:56 AM PDT by pgyanke (Duncan Hunter 08--You want to elect a conservative? Then support a conservative!)
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To: Aquinasfan

Thank you but I meant “conservatives”. Walter Williams is a conservative. Sadly, he and some others take the red meat bait dangled by the MSM to expound on a point they want to make rather than examining the bait.


30 posted on 08/29/2007 10:38:07 AM PDT by pgyanke (Duncan Hunter 08--You want to elect a conservative? Then support a conservative!)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Walter Williams should be a lot smarter than to get in bed with Farah and those clowns at World Nut Daily. While the pundits jerk their knees I'll wait until the encyclical is released.

I share Pope Benedict's desire to assist our fellow man in need. But I believe that reaching into one's own pocket to do so is praiseworthy and laudable.

When Williams approaches the generosity of the Church in helping the poor then he'll have standing to criticize.

Pope set to declare income tax evasion 'socially unjust'(budget crisis in Italy)

31 posted on 08/29/2007 10:40:31 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Does this mean my taxes count as tithing?


32 posted on 08/29/2007 10:40:52 AM PDT by stevio ((NRA))
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To: kitkat
I wonder if Rush knows that his sometime replacement is anti-Catholic.

So, criticising the pope makes a person "anti-Catholic"?

No offence, but what kind of idiotic nonsense is that?

33 posted on 08/29/2007 10:40:57 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Fred Dalton Thompson - POTUS 44)
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To: pgyanke

***I’m inclined to think Walter Williams simply chose this opportunity to expose the OECD since they get a far greater specific mention in his article.***

Yes, the OECD gets star billing, but only further down the article. Anyone doing a quick read would remember WW’s words in the third paragraph of the article where he says (paraphrased) that the Pope is spot on with the OECD.

I agree with you generally about the article, but I think it’s Walter Williams who should be more careful of what he writes.

Peace in Christ.


34 posted on 08/29/2007 10:48:50 AM PDT by kitkat (I refuse to let the DUers chase me off FR.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I agree.. Logic and facts seem to be a thing of the past for many of the folks now posting here. This was formerly a great place for discussion, but I find myself avoiding this URL most of the time now.


35 posted on 08/29/2007 10:51:16 AM PDT by C Knotts
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Does the Church pay taxes?


36 posted on 08/29/2007 10:51:28 AM PDT by radioman
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

***No offence, but what kind of idiotic nonsense is that?***

No offense? I’d rather not hear what you DO call offense.

When the Pope is criticized without knowing the full meaning of something he hasn’t yet written, then I call it anti-Catholic.


37 posted on 08/29/2007 10:54:58 AM PDT by kitkat (I refuse to let the DUers chase me off FR.)
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To: TonyRo76
The Roman hierarchy has always leaned socialist/collectivist when it comes to economics, except they call it being "communitarian."

And so how can Catholic 'conservatives' reconcile their fiscally conservative positions? I thought they HAD to follow the teachings of their church. By definition they are hypocrites.

38 posted on 08/29/2007 10:55:32 AM PDT by Swordfished
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To: shempy

You are quite simply an ignorant fool. Perhaps that will be a mitigating factor during your particular judgment.


39 posted on 08/29/2007 10:56:46 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: pgyanke
I'm not and I will pray for you... May God bless you and hit you upside the head with His two-by-four of truth. Amen.

LOL. My vote for the funniest response on FR today - I'm still chuckling.
40 posted on 08/29/2007 10:57:12 AM PDT by khnyny (The best minds are not in government. If they were, business would hire them away. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Swordfished
And so how can Catholic 'conservatives' reconcile their fiscally conservative positions? I thought they HAD to follow the teachings of their church. By definition they are hypocrites.

You are making the same mistake Walter Williams made in this article. You are assuming the post you are responding to is correct in its analysis of Catholic teaching and drawing a harsh conclusion.

The analysis is wrong... as is your conclusion.

41 posted on 08/29/2007 10:59:39 AM PDT by pgyanke (Duncan Hunter 08--You want to elect a conservative? Then support a conservative!)
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To: khnyny

Thank you... please tip your waiter.


42 posted on 08/29/2007 11:01:06 AM PDT by pgyanke (Duncan Hunter 08--You want to elect a conservative? Then support a conservative!)
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To: DuncanWaring

The left condemns ‘greed’ but promotes ‘envy’.
Which sin is greater?

I wish the ‘church’ would consider doing their own work instead of demanding the ‘state’ do it for them.

When you stand in front of the pearly gates and St Peter asks you, “What did you do in God’s name?”
“I paid my taxes”, is a good answer.


43 posted on 08/29/2007 11:06:41 AM PDT by griswold3 (Al queda is guilty of hiraba (war against society) Penalty is death.)
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To: bill1952
“render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.”

Where do we find Caesar in the United States?
44 posted on 08/29/2007 11:10:12 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: Aquinasfan

Anytime I see a MSM article referencing the Pope, I just smile, because I know it’s probably BS.


45 posted on 08/29/2007 11:11:48 AM PDT by khnyny (The best minds are not in government. If they were, business would hire them away. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

If the article is correct on the Pope’s message, I am sure we can speedily accomodate assessing and sending property tax bills out on all Catholic holdings. It is about time that the Catholic Church paid its fair share of community taxes. I am so glad the Pope agrees.


46 posted on 08/29/2007 11:26:37 AM PDT by marsh2
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

A silly article. Of course, the Pope thinks everyone should pay their fair share of taxes. His theory is that doing gymnastics with tax laws amounts to tax evasion. In other words, less than true Chrisian behavior.

This pope is not against people keeping their fair share of their own income. That’s not what he is saying here.


47 posted on 08/29/2007 11:29:38 AM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: Antoninus
What Williams did is no worse at worst than what numerous of supposedly impeccable freepers have done, namely taken every single detail of a news article as gospel. In fact said freepers have sometimes done even worse, such as beating others over the head for daring to ignore something in the Letter of the Story.

Since the RCC claims to be able to add to what is taught in the Bible, possibly Ratzinger really did mean what Williams is reporting him to mean. It would be within the scope of possibility. But Romans 13:5-7 only goes this far:

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. [NIV]

A biblical reading would be that if the tax law says you don't owe taxes, whatever the reason... well, you don't owe taxes.

48 posted on 08/29/2007 11:32:19 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

That’s easy for a tax-exempt organization to say.


49 posted on 08/29/2007 11:33:13 AM PDT by lady lawyer
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To: marsh2

If we go by the rumors that you post hypotheticals as cover for your bigotry and simply go looking for an excuse to criticize the Church, we can go ahead and ridicule you now...


50 posted on 08/29/2007 11:33:22 AM PDT by pgyanke (Duncan Hunter 08--You want to elect a conservative? Then support a conservative!)
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