Wise, not wacky

On October 10, 2001, Congressman Ron Paul led the effort in Congress to give President Bush the tools he needed to capture, dead or alive, Osama bin Laden and the other terrorists responsible for September 11th. Dr. Paul introduced on that day H.R. 3076 - The September 11 Marque and Reprisal Act of 2001.

If passed, that legislation would have given President Bush an additional weapon against bin Laden. If Dr. Paul's legislation had passed in 2001, it is likely bin Laden would not still be at large six years later.

But today, John Bresnahan of Politico.com describes Congressman Ron Paul's effort to capture Osama bin Laden as "wacky." Wacky? Let's see.

1. Improve chances to capture Osama bin Laden and others more quickly.
2. Decrease the risk of American military being wounded or killed.
3. Decrease the risk of a larger war developing.
4. Decrease the number of innocent civilians killed.
5. Reduce the cost of U.S. military operations.

Article I, Section 8, Clauses 10 and 11 of the U.S. Constitution grant Congress the power to offer a bounty and appoint stealth warriors, private companies and individuals, to capture or kill an enemy such as Osama bin Laden and his fellow terrorists, as well as seize their property.

In 2001 when Congressman Paul introduced his legislation to grant letters of marque and reprisal against Osama bin Laden, he said, "The founders and authors of our Constitution provided an answer for the difficult tasks that we now face. When a precise declaration of war was impossible due to the vagueness of our enemy, the Congress was expected to take it upon themselves to direct the reprisal against an enemy not recognized as a government."

Dr. Paul's marque and reprisal legislation did not pass in 2001. But Osama bin Laden is still at large. Therefore, Dr. Paul re-introduced his legislation a few days ago.

I opposed giving the president power to wage unlimited and unchecked aggression. However, I did vote to support the use of force in Afghanistan. I also authored H.R. 3076, the September 11 Marque and Reprisal Act of 2001. A letter of marque and reprisal is a constitutional tool specifically designed to give the president the authority to respond with appropriate force to those non-state actors who wage aggression against the United States while limiting his authority to only those responsible for the atrocities of that day. Such a limited authorization is consistent with the doctrine of just war and the practical aim of keeping Americans safe while minimizing the costs in blood and treasure of waging such an operation.

I am ashamed to admit that I didn’t know that Ron Paul authored that bill to grant the president the authority to enlist “steath warriors” to take out Bin Laden and other Al Qaedas.

I’m even more ashamed to admit that I didn’t realize such a clause existed in our Constitution.

Ron Paul has risen several notches on my respect rule...now I’m off to do some study of my Constitution.

Almost everyone--that is, with the exception of those hard leftists who (secretly, at least) would revel in the destruction of the US--agrees that the capture or demise of Osama bin Laden would be a wonderful thing. But the wonderful part would be mostly symbolic (and cathartic) in nature. It would do very little to alter the balance in the war on Islamist jihadism. (The usual term, "war on terror," is just too vague to be useful, and, in any case, confuses a tactic with an enemy.)

Iraq is just one front in this existential war. And those on the other side often do not agree among themselves--or even like each other very much.

For instance, two radical Sunni groups, Hamas and al-Qaeda, seem to be at loggerheads now, with the latter recently lecturing the former for...well, being insufficiently radical.

On the Shiite side, the establishment-backed Badr Brigades and the populist (if that is the correct term) Mahdi Army have been engaged in internecine warfare for some time now.

All of this is to say nothing of the Sunni-Shiite divide, which is a source of serious irritation among radical Muslims.

But Iran, by funding both (Sunni) Hamas and (Shiite) Hezbollah, has shown that it is possible to set aside these deep animosities, in order to fight common enemies (the "near enemy" being Israel and the "far enemy" being the US).

We need to win this war decisively on all fronts--certainly, including Iraq.

I know I may get pretty heavily criticized for this statement, but it is how I feel. The “get Ben Laden” mantra is a throw back to the days of WWII. Get the Germans and the Japanese and the war will be over. Ben Laden is a figure head for an idealogical belief that has spread far beyond his personal influence. Much like the mythical hydra, when one head is removed the others continue to fight. I think of him much like I do catching a skunk in a trap. What happens when it is captured?? (give this some thought) So we bring him here for a fair, p.c. trial? Or we kill him and he becomes the ultimate, Jesus like martyr? Let him perish on his own.

I think Ron Paul is very strong in his beliefs, but I’m not sure they would translate well in the present global world we live in. Isolationism didn’t work during WWII either.

A letter of marque and reprisal is a constitutional tool specifically designed to give the president the authority to respond with appropriate force to those non-state actors who wage aggression against the United States while limiting his authority to only those responsible for the atrocities of that day.

I see. So Ronnie would ignore the tens of thousands of other terrorists who are trying to do the same thing Osama did?

He's not wise, he's wacky.

You call living with the goats in a cave "at large"? Personally, I don't think he's taking up oxygen and I think we know it. Even if he is alive, he's a joke - hiding in a cave -

I'm not sure why people say "in a cave". I think he's living in comfort in one of the larger towns in Waziristan, probably in a compound. I'd guess it's near a number of other hideouts in nearby mountains and they have preparations to move him and the top leadership to safety if the Pakis storm in after him. He probably has access to a good doctor and to medical treatment, possibly including dialysis if the rumors about kidney failure are true.

I don't quite get the part of "who cares about Osama". I do. He killed 3,000 Americans and issues 60 videos a year to brag about and encourage others to do the same. The fact that he's still alive encourages others to believe they can strike civilians in the West and get away with it. And what about justice for our dead citizens?

Saying "who cares about bin Laden 'cause he's hiding in a cave" makes about as much sense as saying "who cares about Timothy McVeigh if he's just hiding in a cave somewhere". Or saying that it would be fine for the Manson Family to kill a bunch of people and then just hide for years, releasing videos bragging about it.

Letting Osama escape us is like letting Hitler escape Berlin. It's not okay. At least, not to me.

I am ashamed to admit that I didn’t know that Ron Paul authored that bill to grant the president the authority to enlist “steath warriors” to take out Bin Laden and other Al Qaedas.

Hiring and authorizing non-state actors to apprehend or kill terrorists/bandits/pirates is perfectly sensible. Our $25 million reward (recently increased to $50 million) is an attempt just to bribe people for info so our armed forces can capture them.

However, given that Osama is likely hiding in Waziristan or Pakistan, allowing a letter of marque and reprisal would let us hire what are essentially bounty hunters to go in as civilians, not as a U.S. military force. They could even be disavowed if necessary.

I’m even more ashamed to admit that I didn’t realize such a clause existed in our Constitution. Ron Paul has risen several notches on my respect rule...now I’m off to do some study of my Constitution.

You'd make RP smile if he knew he got you to read the Constitution again. Some of us believe it's still a lot more than "just a damned piece of paper".

Whether FReepers like or dislike RP for being against the Iraq war, I don't get the hostility to offering the Bush administration more authority and constitutional methods to pursue Osama. It's not as though we aren't hiring Blackwater and other mercenary outfits for big money to provide security and such in Iraq and Afghanistan already. A letter of marque and reprisal just takes one more step and authorizes those designated to go on the offensive. Naturally, they are not in American uniform and would not be afforded the limited protections of the Geneva Convention but no one in the Mideast recognizes those laws of war anyway.

Agreed. World War IV is underway, but still invisible to most people. An explicit declaration of war would help, identifying the belligerents more accurately, and committing the appropriate resources. Perhaps the result would be less profligate expenditure of resources in the struggle. The revival of active use of letters of marque and reprisal is not a half-bad idea for ‘outsourcing’ the struggle to agents who will not treat the American taxpayer as a bottomless source of funds for maintaining a military establishment that is still largely oriented to fighting continental conventional wars with similarly organized adversaries. This is changing slowly as a result of the Vietnam and later experiences, but the tuition being paid for the learning is far too steep.

The 9/11 attack produced on the order of $50-100 billion of physical and economic damage as well as killing roughly 3000 Americans and residents of NYC, for a cost of 19 enemy casualties and at most a few $million in funding to plan, prepare for, and execute the attacks. Other similar attacks are undoubtedly in the works (as we see when, from time to time, one or another of them is disrupted and rolled up before it can be executed).

Having been suckered into the Middle East by the prospects of an easy victory in another set-piece war with a nation-state, many hundreds of billions of dollars later we are still pursuing an adversary that fights with a minimal force backed by a comparatively tiny economic outlay. As a result, the US exposes itself to economic ruin, which will not be an advantageous condition if we are serious about defeating Khalifate revivalists and the other components of the loose alliance of factions that claims allegiance to the vision of transforming the entire globe into dar al-Islam

The most important “fronts” are the “home front” and “media front”. That and the “battle of the bedrooms”, which Europe is in the process of losing. A culture which positively sanctions the killing of roughly 1 out of 4 infants conceived is not doing very well on that front either.

To be fair to the administration, they may have already done exactly this. I have no idea whether the administration would have to share that intel with the traitorous congress or not. I would certainly hope not, else most of their heads would likely explode.

Just so you know, I’ve never been on the anti-RP bandwagon. He’s not a perfect conservative, but he at least has been a staunch defender of the constitution and federalism in my view. He was also one of the early proponents of the Fair Tax, which I also subscribe to. For those reasons, I’m glad he’s there.

That being said, I won’t support his candidacy. I believe he’s wrong on the war, and he doesn’t have enough support to defeat domestic enemy number one, Hillary.

I agree that spending our taxpayers millions on bounty hunters makes more sense than spending it on informants, to get Bin Laden. Especially, when the authorization to do so is clearly written into our constitution.

Did you read that when asked how much he'd spend in the last few days, Ron Paul said he thought a billion would be quite reasonable.

You could lavishly equip a thousand expert mercenaries for that. Of course, you could also offer them that older nuclear sub we kept in service for our elite forces to use for stealthy transport and as an offshore weapons platform and depot.

Just so you know, I’ve never been on the anti-RP bandwagon. He’s not a perfect conservative, but he at least has been a staunch defender of the constitution and federalism in my view. He was also one of the early proponents of the Fair Tax, which I also subscribe to. For those reasons, I’m glad he’s there.

None of them are perfect candidates by any means. No Reagans in that bunch. Still, they do each have some merit. Even Giuliani has the merit of being the perfect Republican if you really like to vote for Democrats.

Thanks for your input though. FRiends can disagree. Maybe I'm not choosy enough but I like all our candidates pretty well except the leftwing mayor. I could vote for all of the others, even McCain.

“None of them are perfect candidates by any means. No Reagans in that bunch. Still, they do each have some merit. Even Giuliani has the merit of being the perfect Republican if you really like to vote for Democrats.

............. Maybe I’m not choosy enough but I like all our candidates pretty well except the leftwing mayor. I could vote for all of the others, even McCain.”

That is a very good observation, and one I’ve also made (as I’m sure others have as well). We ought to all acknowledge the fact that our stable for ‘08 is practically bursting with real, qualified contenders. I can well recall other elections where it seemed we had few good men answering the call.

My guess as to why we’ve had this sudden rush of talent to the stage, is the threat of the Hildebeast taking the CIC job during one of our nation’s most dangerous and pivotal times. There is just too much at stake to chance a complete Democrat takeover.

I agree with you, that I could throw my support to almost any of the good men who want to lead us for the next four years, with the exception of Rudy...and that lunatic from Arizona.

Article 1 sec 8

“To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water...”

kooky whacko Constitution...letters of marque...Ron Paul is looney bwahhhahaaha /s

I don’t know if Ross Perot had a letter, but if I recall correctly, Perot himself first, then some men from his private company, and a retired army Col stealthed into Iran to rescue and recover two imprisoned employees. The mission was successful.

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