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Beheaded at whim and worked to death: Japan's repugnant treatment of Allied PoWs
The Daily Mail (U.K.) ^ | September 17, 2007 | Max Hastings

Posted on 09/18/2007 3:36:43 PM PDT by Stoat

Beheaded at whim and worked to death: Japan's repugnant treatment of Allied PoWs

22:59pm 18th September 2007

 

Max Hastings
The sheer brutality of the battle for the Far East defies imagination. And in a new book, historian Max Hastings argues that Japanese intransigence made it far worse.

 

Yesterday, he explained why America had to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima. Here, in the final part of our exclusive serialisation, he reveals how the West was stunned when it emerged how cruelly their prisoners of war had suffered...

As the men of the victorious British 14th Army advanced through Burma on the road to Mandalay in January 1945 they encountered Japanese savagery towards prisoners.

After a battle, the Berkshires found dead British soldiers beaten, stripped of their boots and suspended by electric flex upside down from trees. This sharpened the battalion's sentiment against their enemy.

Back in Britain it was beginning to emerge that such inhumanity was not confined to the battlefield.

Men who had escaped from Japanese captivity brought tales of brutality so extreme that politicians and officials censored them for fear of the Japanese imposing even more terrible sufferings upon tens of thousands of PoWs who remained in their hands.

 

The US government suppressed for months the first eyewitness accounts of the 1942 Bataan death march in the Philippines on which so many captured American GIs perished, and news of the beheadings of shot-down aircrew.

 

behead

Grotesque: A prisoner of war, about to be beheaded by a Japanese executioner

 

In official circles a reluctance persisted to believe the worst. As late as January 1945, a Foreign Office committee concluded that it was only in some outlying areas that there might be ill-treatment by rogue military officers.

A few weeks later, such thinking was discredited as substantial numbers of British and Australian PoWs were freed in Burma and the Philippines.

Their liberators were stunned by stories of starvation and rampant disease; of men worked to death in their thousands, tortured or beheaded for small infractions of discipline.

More than a quarter of Western PoWs lost their lives in Japanese captivity. This represented deprivation and brutality of a kind familiar to Russian and Jewish prisoners of the Nazis in Europe, yet shocking to the American, British and Australian public.

It seemed incomprehensible that a nation with pretensions to civilisation could have defied every principle of humanity and the supposed rules of war.

The overwhelming majority of Allied prisoners were taken during the first months of the Far East war when the Philippines, Dutch East Indies, Hong Kong, Malaya and Burma were overrun.

As disarmed soldiers milled about awaiting their fate in Manila or Singapore, Hong Kong or Rangoon, they contemplated a life behind barbed wire with dismay, but without the terror that their real prospects merited.

They had been conditioned to suppose that surrender was a misfortune that might befall any fighting man.

In the weeks that followed, as their rations shrank, medicines vanished, and Japanese policy was revealed, they learned differently. Dispatched to labour in jungles, torrid plains or mines and quarries, they grew to understand that, in the eyes of their captors, they had become slaves.

They had forfeited all fundamental human respect. A Japanese war reporter described seeing American prisoners - "men of the arrogant nation which sought to treat our motherland with unwarranted contempt.

"As I gaze upon them, I feel as if I am watching dirty water running from the sewers of a nation whose origins were mongrel, and whose pride has been lost. Japanese soldiers look extraordinarily handsome, and I feel very proud to belong to their race."

As prisoners' residual fitness ebbed away, some abandoned hope and acquiesced to a fate that soon overtook them. A feeling of loneliness was a contributory factor in the deaths of many, particularly the younger ones.

The key to survival was adaptability. It was essential to recognise that this new life, however unspeakable, represented reality.

Those who pined for home, who gazed tearfully at photos of loved ones, were doomed. Some men could not bring themselves to stomach unfamiliar, repulsive food. "They preferred to die rather than to eat what they were given," said US airman Doug Idlett.

"The ones who wouldn't eat died pretty early on," said Corporal Paul Reuter. "I buried people who looked much better than me. I never turned down anything that was edible."

Australian Snow Peat saw a maggot an inch long, and said: "Meat, you beauty! You've got to give it a go. Think they're currants in the Christmas pudding. Think they're anything."

But in the shipyards near Osaka, two starving British prisoners ate lard from a great tub used for greasing the slipway. It had been treated with arsenic to repel insects. They died.

Prisoners were bereft of possessions. Mel Rosen owned a loincloth, a bottle and a pot of pepper. Many PoWs boasted only the loincloth. Even where there were razor blades, shaving was unfashionable, shaggy beards the norm.

In the midst of all this, they were occasionally permitted to dispatch cards home, couched in terms that mocked their condition, and phrases usually dictated by their jailers. "Dear Mum & all," wrote Fred Thompson from Java to his family in Essex, "I am very well and hope you are too.

"The Japanese treat us well. My daily work is easy and we are paid. We have plenty of food and much recreation. Goodbye, God bless you, my love to you all."

Thompson expressed reality in the privacy of his diary: "Somehow we keep going. We are all skeletons, just living from day to day. This life just teaches one not to hope or expect anything. My emotions are non-existent."

Prisoner Paul Reuter slept on the top deck of a three-tier bunk in his camp. When disease and vitamin deficiency caused him to go blind for three weeks, no man would change places to enable him to sleep at ground level.

"Some people would steal," he said. "There was a lot of barter, then bitterness about people who reneged on the deals.

"There were only a few fights, but a lot of arguing - about places in line, about who got a spoonful more."

This was a world in which gentleness was neither a virtue that commanded esteem, nor a quality that promoted survival.

Philip Stibbe, in Rangoon Jail, wrote: "We became hardened and even callous. Bets were laid about who would be next to die. Everything possible was done to save the lives of the sick, but it was worse than useless to grieve over the inevitable."

Self-respect was deeply discounted. Every day, prisoners were exposed to their own impotence. Rosen watched Japanese soldiers kick ailing Americans into latrine pits: "You don't know the meaning of frustration until you've had to stand by and take that."

Almost every prisoner afterwards felt ashamed that he had stood passively by while the Japanese beat or killed his comrades. And prisoners hated the necessity to bow to every Japanese, whatever his rank and whatever theirs. No display of deference shielded them from the erratic whims of their masters.

Japanese behaviour vacillated between grotesquery and sadism. Ted Whincup laboured on the notorious Burma railway, a 250-mile track carved through mountain and dense jungle.

The commandant insisted that the prisoners' four-piece band should muster outside the guardroom and play "Hi, ho, hi, ho, it's off to work we go" - the tune from Snow White - each morning as skeletal inmates shambled forth to their labours.

If guards here took a dislike to a prisoner, they killed him with a casual shove into a ravine.

The Japanese seemed especially ill-disposed towards tall men, whom they obliged to bend to receive punishment, usually administered with a cane.

One day Airman Fred Jackson was working on an airfield on the coral island of Ambon when, for no reason, six British officers were paraded in line, and one by one punched to the ground by a Japanese warrant officer.

A trooper of the 3rd Hussars, being beaten by a guard with a rifle, raised an arm to ward off blows and was accused of having struck the man. After several days of beatings, he was tied to a tree and bayoneted to death.

An officer of the Gordons who protested against sick men being forced to work was also tied to a tree, beneath which guards lit a fire and burnt him like some Christian martyr.

Although Labour on the notorious Burma railway represented the worst fate that could befall an Allied PoW, shipment to Japan as a slave labourer also proved fatal to many.

In June 1944, the commandant in Hall Romney's camp announced to the prisoners that their job on the railway was done. They were now going to Japan.

Conditions in the holds of transport ships were always appalling, sometimes fatal. Overlaid on hunger and thirst was the threat of US submarines. The Japanese made no attempt to identify ships carrying PoWs. At least 10,000 perished following Allied attacks.

RAOC wireless mechanic Alf Evans was among 1,500 men on the Kachidoki Maru when she was sunk. Evans jumped into the water and dog-paddled to a small raft to which three other men were already clinging to.

One had two broken legs, another a dislocated thigh. They were all naked, and coated in oil. A Japanese destroyer arrived, and began to pick up survivors - but only Japanese.

Evans paddled to a lifeboat left empty after its occupants were rescued, and climbed aboard, joining two Gordon Highlanders. They hauled in other men, until they were 30 strong.

After three days and nights afloat, they were taken aboard a Japanese submarine-hunter. The captain reviewed the bedraggled figures paraded on his deck, and at first ordered them thrown over the side. Then he changed his mind and administered savage beatings all round.

Eventually the prisoners were transferred-to the hold of a whaling factory ship, in which they completed their journey to Japan. Filthy and almost naked, they were landed on the dockside and marched through the streets, between lines of watching Japanese women, to a cavalry barracks. There they were clothed in sacking and dispatched to work 12-hour shifts in the furnaces of a chemical work.

Many prisoners' feet were so swollen by beriberi that in the desperate cold of a Japanese winter, they could not wear shoes. Even under such blankets as they had, men shivered at night, for there was no heating in their barracks.

At Stephen Abbott's camp when prisoners begged for relief, the commandant said contemptuously: "If you wish to live you must become hardened to cold, as Japanese are. You must teach your men to have strong willpower - like Japanese."

Yet by 1944 the death rate in most Japanese camps had declined steeply from the earlier years. The most vulnerable were gone. Those who remained were frail, often verging on madness, but possessed a brute capacity to endure that kept many alive to the end.

Out of fairness, it should be noted that there were instances in which PoWs were shown kindness, even granted means to survive through Japanese compassion.

In his camp, Doug Idlett told a Japanese interpreter he had beriberi "and the next day he handed me a bottle of Vitamin B. I never saw him again, but I felt that he had contributed to me being alive."

Lt Masaichi Kikuchi, commanding an airfield defence unit in Singapore early in 1945, was allotted a labour force of 300 Indian PoWs. The officer who handed over the men said carelessly: "When you're finished, you can do what you like with them. If I was you, I'd shove them into a tunnel with a few demolition charges."

Kikuchi could do no such thing. When two Indians escaped and were returned after being re-captured, he did not execute them, as he should have done. He thought it unjustified.

The point of such stories is not that they contradict an overarching view of the Japanese as ruthless and sadistic in their treatment of despised captives. It is that, as always in human affairs, the story deserves shading.

There was undoubtedly some maltreatment of German and Japanese PoWs in Allied hands. This is not to suggest moral equivalence, merely that few belligerents in any war can boast unblemished records in the treatment of prisoners, as events in Iraq have recently reminded us.

Since 1945, pleas have been entered in mitigation of what the Japanese did to prisoners in the Second World War. First there was the administrative difficulty of handling unexpectedly large numbers of captives in 1942.

This has some validity. Many armies in modern history have encountered such problems in the chaos of victory, and their prisoners have suffered.

Moreover, food and medical supplies were desperately short in many parts of the Japanese empire. Western prisoners, goes this argument, merely shared privations endured by local civilians and Japanese soldiers.

Such claims might be plausible, but for the fact that prisoners were left starving and neglected even where means were available to alleviate pain. There is no record of PoWs at any time or place being adequately fed.

The Japanese maltreated captives as a matter of policy, not necessity. The casual sadism was so widespread, that it must be considered institutional.

There were so many arbitrary beheadings, clubbings and bayonetings that it is impossible to dismiss these as unauthorised initiatives by individual officers and men.

A people who adopt a code which rejects the concept of mercy towards the weak and afflicted seem to place themselves outside the pale of civilisation. Japanese sometimes justify their inhumanity by suggesting that it was matched by equally callous Allied bombing of civilians.

Japanese moral indignation caused many US aircrew captured in 1944-45 to be treated as "war criminals". Eight B-29 crewmen were killed by un-anaesthetised vivisection carried out in front of medical students at a hospital. Their stomachs, hearts, lungs and brain segments were removed.

Half a century later, one doctor present said: "There was no debate among the doctors about whether to do the operations - that was what made it so strange."

Any society that can indulge such actions has lost its moral compass. War is inherently inhumane, but the Japanese practised extraordinary refinements of inhumanity in the treatment of those thrown upon their mercy. Some of them knew it.

In Stephen Abbott's camp, little old Mr Yogi, the civilian interpreter, told the British officer: "The war has changed the real Japan. We were much as you are before the war - when the army had not control. You must not think our true standards are what you see now."

Yet, unlike Mr Yogi, the new Japan that emerged from the war has proved distressingly reluctant to confront the historic guilt of the old. Its spirit of denial contrasted starkly with the penitence of postwar Germany.

Though successive Japanese prime ministers expressed formal regret for Japan's wartime actions, the country refused to pay reparations to victims, or to acknowledge its record in school history texts.

I embarked upon this history of the war with a determination to view Japanese conduct objectively, thrusting aside nationalistic sentiments. It proved hard to sustain lofty aspirations to detachment in the face of the evidence of systemic Japanese barbarism, displayed against Americans and Europeans but on a vastly wider scale against their fellow Asians.

In modern times, only Hitler's SS has matched militarist Japan in rationalising and institutionalising atrocity. Stalin's Soviet Union never sought to dignify its great killings as the acts of gentlemen, as did Hirohito's nation.

It is easy to perceive why so many Japanese behaved as they did, conditioned as they were. Yet it remains difficult to empathise with those who did such things, especially when Japan still rejects its historic legacy.

Many Japanese today adopt the view that it is time to bury all old grievances - those of Japan's former enemies about the treatment of prisoners and subject peoples, along with those of their own nation about firebombing, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

"In war, both sides do terrible things," former Lt Hayashi Inoue argued in 2005. "Surely after 60 years, the time has come to stop criticising Japan for things done so long ago."

Wartime Japan was responsible for almost as many deaths in Asia as was Nazi Germany in Europe. Germany has paid almost £3billion to 1.5 million victims of the Hitler era. But Japan goes to extraordinary lengths to escape any admission of responsibility, far less of liability for compensation, towards its wartime victims.

Most modern Japanese do not accept the ill-treatment of subject peoples and prisoners by their forebears, even where supported by overwhelming evidence, and those who do acknowledge it incur the disdain or outright hostility of their fellow-countrymen for doing so.

It is repugnant the way they still seek to excuse, and even to ennoble, the actions of their parents and grandparents, so many of whom forsook humanity in favour of a perversion of honour and an aggressive nationalism which should properly be recalled with shame.

The Japanese nation is guilty of a collective rejection of historical fact. As long as such denial persists, it will remain impossible for the world to believe that Japan has come to terms with the horrors it inflicted.

• Abridged extract from NEMESIS: THE BATTLE FOR JAPAN 1944-45 by Max Hastings, published by HarperPress on October 1 at £25. Max Hastings 2007. To order a copy at £22.50 (p&p free), call 0845 606 4213.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Japan; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: japan; milhist; militaryhistory; pows; prisoners; race; racerelations; races; racial; racism; racist; racists; worldwartwo; ww2; yamada; yamadarace; yamato; yamatorace
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1 posted on 09/18/2007 3:36:48 PM PDT by Stoat
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To: VaBthang4; archy; indcons

ping


2 posted on 09/18/2007 3:39:28 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

ping


3 posted on 09/18/2007 3:39:50 PM PDT by sushiman
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To: Stoat

Well, yeah ... but ... we’ve been known to put panties on a man’s head ...


4 posted on 09/18/2007 3:45:53 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agamemnon dead.)
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To: Stoat

My father spent three years in a Japanese concentration camp as a ten to thirteen year old. He lived in the European section of the Chinese coast when they invaded—his father took him down to the beach to watch the Japanese come in.


5 posted on 09/18/2007 3:49:21 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys--Reagan and Bush)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Well, yeah ... but ... we’ve been known to put panties on a man’s head ...

And I understand that our islamofascist prisoners are fed and treated much better than they ever were at home.  We have nothing to be ashamed of.

6 posted on 09/18/2007 3:51:12 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

Shit! I reckon that the Japanese people may have learned their lessons very well. I can only hope that the Damned Muslims are half as smart! Japan has become a productive, constructive participant, Islam is still living in slime, under rocks!
I ride around on a Chinese motorscooter, it is copied from a Japanese motorscooter, and costs less. It runs just fine!
I don’t reckon I’m ready for a Muslim motorscooter, LOL!


7 posted on 09/18/2007 3:53:22 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: Stoat

It is more than high time that Japan coughed up to its misbehaviors of 70 years ago, starting with their adventure into Manchuoko and ending with the JUSTIFIED nuclear detonations at Nagasaki and Hiroshima — and all the atrocities that they committed in-between.

I would like to hear Japan say “sorry”.


8 posted on 09/18/2007 3:55:27 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Filo

Self Ping


9 posted on 09/18/2007 3:57:34 PM PDT by Filo (Darwin was right!)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
>>>>I would like to hear Japan say “sorry”.

So would I. But what incentive do they have to do that, when so many Americans buy Japanese products and trash American products? It's not like the Japanese are paying any price for their barbaric treatment of American POWs and allied civilians.

10 posted on 09/18/2007 3:59:04 PM PDT by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: Stoat
The two things the bother me the most of these facts are one; the uniformity of the Japanese in mistreating POW's (you never hear of any good or fair officers) and two; the persistence of the Japanese to this day in their refusal to assume any national guilt for these actions.
11 posted on 09/18/2007 4:00:38 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Stoat
This could have been the fate of the President's father.


12 posted on 09/18/2007 4:01:39 PM PDT by naturalized ("The time has come," He said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!")
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To: Stoat
We paid them back with Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

It is merely a pity they surrendered so quickly. It would have been fitting had they fought a few more months, and a few more bombs.

Despite the "misgivings" that Hirohito supposedly expressed about the war, I'd have liked to have seen him stripped, paraded through the streets of Tokyo and summarily sliced, julienne style before his imperialist cabinet and warlord officer corps.

13 posted on 09/18/2007 4:01:40 PM PDT by Thumper1960 (Unleash the Dogs of War as a Minority, or perish as a party.)
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To: Stoat

“Japanese behaviour vacillated between grotesquery and sadism.
Ted Whincup laboured on the notorious Burma railway, a 250-mile track
carved through mountain and dense jungle. “

Regrettably, I have to admit that PBS did a good job on this subject
in their Burma Railway (River Kwai) episode on “Secrets of The Dead”.

IIRC, an American and Australian researcher were joined by a Japanese
officer who helped construct the railway.
The Japanese officer (engineer) claimed that only Asian workers were
used on his stretch of the roadbed...
then he shared his PERSONAL photos of the work.
In the background of some of the officer’s photos, you can see skeletal
Caucasians in ragged clothing at work, building the roadbed.

I’m glad I wasn’t there...I’d probably have started beating the guy
and calling him a lying b@$tard.

But for all I could tell, the guy was simply in total denial about
WWII (not the only Japanese with that brain dysfunction).
And was simply lost in his pride of telling how he helped get a
working railway constructed under tough conditions.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_kwai/index.html

AND, IIRC, the PBS show mentioned something really not known in
the USA...that many more Asian workers (than Allied POWs) perished
during the building of the railway as well.
I may be mis-remembering, but I thought something like 250,000
Asian workers perished in this ugly chapter of WWII.


14 posted on 09/18/2007 4:01:49 PM PDT by VOA
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To: Stoat
One of my neighbors survived the Bataan Death March. He was packed into the hold of a Japanese ship, and sent from the Philippines to Mainland Japan. The Allied POWS were literally worked to death in the Japanese coal mines. This soldier told me that hundreds of POWS died every day. Many of the POWS were used for medical experiments.
He was in Nagasaki when the second A-bomb was dropped.
15 posted on 09/18/2007 4:03:13 PM PDT by wjcsux (Islam: The religion of choice for those who are too stupid for Scientology)
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To: Stoat

Hmmmm. no mention of the small percentage of German prisoners held in the Soviet union who managed to return home.

Out of the 98,000 captured at Stalingrad, 7,000 made it out alive to return to Germany after the war.

I’m sure the corresponding figures for the rest were probably along that line also.

” Stalin’s Soviet Union never sought to dignify its great killings as the acts of gentlemen,... “

And yes, the Soviets, continued to protray themselves as
heroic victors, saving the world for Socialism, not much different than the Japanese.


16 posted on 09/18/2007 4:03:34 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: yldstrk
My father spent three years in a Japanese concentration camp as a ten to thirteen year old. He lived in the European section of the Chinese coast when they invaded—his father took him down to the beach to watch the Japanese come in.

I am thankful our two nations now get along now!

That said when we had concentration camps they were nothing like that yet we had to paid repartation after the war.

What has Japan paid?

I think in the climate today we should bring back the concentration camps for wisdom sake and the protection of our citizens.

17 posted on 09/18/2007 4:05:44 PM PDT by restornu (No one is perfect but you can always strive to be honest in all of your dealings!)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
"Islam is still living in slime, under rocks!"

But that's the only place - outside of its birthplace, Hell - where it really feels at home.

We've all seen what happens when it comes out into civilized society. It's not a pretty sight at all.

18 posted on 09/18/2007 4:05:58 PM PDT by MarineDad (Whenever mosques and JDAM's meet, civilization benefits.)
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To: Thumper1960
...summarily sliced, julienne style...

I like the old TV commercial (Ronco?) phrase:
"sliced, diced and julienne-friend!"

As for Hirohito, I wouldn't be suprised if Hirohito and his nation
were more mortified during Hirohito's descent from heaven
and submission to gaijins.

Slicing and dicing him would probably have just created some sort
of martyr status and fuel for revenge by unrepentent Japanese officers.
19 posted on 09/18/2007 4:06:01 PM PDT by VOA
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To: yldstrk
My father spent three years in a Japanese concentration camp as a ten to thirteen year old. He lived in the European section of the Chinese coast when they invaded—his father took him down to the beach to watch the Japanese come in.

My Grandfather was with the Argyl & Sutherland Highlanders and taken prisoner in the fall of Singapore. He died at ChungKai Prison Camp along the Kwai river.

Regards

20 posted on 09/18/2007 4:08:41 PM PDT by ARE SOLE (Agents Ramos and Campean are in prison at this very moment..)
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To: Thorin

> But what incentive do they have to do that, when so many Americans buy Japanese products and trash American products?

Thorin, when you’re right, you’re right, do doubt about it.

The sad thing is, Americans taught ‘em all that they know about Quality. W Edwards Deming was an American, and he taught the Japanese all about TQM. And we keep buying Japanese product. By so doing, we rewarded bad behavior.

And we let the Japanese catch whales “for research purposes” just because they can, and because it makes GreenPeace mad. (Hint: the Japanese are researching Sushi, which we keep buying because it tastes nice).

There has been no natural consequence for their behavior before and during WW-II: and the atomic blasts at Nagasaki and Hiroshima were *not* a natural consequence, they were the only way to stop an out-of-control nation from carrying out an out-of-control process.

Nobody in Japan has said “sorry” yet. They should.


21 posted on 09/18/2007 4:08:53 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: wjcsux
One of my neighbors survived the Bataan Death March.

My father worked with a Bataan Death March survivor.
It took time, but he did make his own personal peace about his
hideous experiences and the post-war incarnation of Japan.

But, when my dad came home one day and said the old soldier had
bought a Japanese auto, my mother inquired:
"For target practice? Or to drive?"
22 posted on 09/18/2007 4:09:23 PM PDT by VOA
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To: Last Dakotan
My father was a prisoner of the Japanese. He fell into captivity at Corregidor, and spent most of his time as a PW in Mukden, Manchuria. The stories of Japanese brutality are quite true, both towards PW's and the peoples of countries they conquered.

He did however tell me that now and again Japanese soldiers would show some humanity. They would be severely punished if they were caught showing any kindness, but they would occaisionally walk up to prisoners and "cuff" them around a bit, and surreptitiously drop a piece of fruit, or a boiled egg next to the prisoner where he laid. It didn't happen often, but he did tell me that it happened to him a few times.

23 posted on 09/18/2007 4:13:22 PM PDT by VR-21
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To: naturalized

In “Flyboys” by James Bradley, he writes that Japanese troops would amputate the limbs of captured American flyers keeping them alive over several days to put on the menu.

Otherwise the meat would spoil.

G.H.W. Bush was very, very lucky to have been rescued by the sub “Finback”.


24 posted on 09/18/2007 4:16:41 PM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: Stoat

BUMP


25 posted on 09/18/2007 4:16:42 PM PDT by Dante3
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To: Stoat
First documented fifty years ago:

Starts with their "adventures" in Manchuria in the early 1930's; goes through the postwar Japanese War Crimes trials.

26 posted on 09/18/2007 4:20:40 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: restornu
I am thankful our two nations now get along now!

You don't know much about the auto industry, do you? Or maybe I missed the sarcasm. In the 80s, I had a Suzuki instructor who showed smuggled photos of the oppressive working conditions in Japanese factories. The Japanese simply don't care about their workers the way domestics do - it has not been a level playing field for a long time.

27 posted on 09/18/2007 4:21:30 PM PDT by naturalized ("The time has come," He said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!")
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To: tet68

Easy answer, Germans were, are, and never will be granted the status of humans, by sophisticated folks anywheres. I mean wheres the money in that?


28 posted on 09/18/2007 4:21:51 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Stoat; 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten; 6323cd; 75thOVI; Adrastus; A message; AnAmericanMother; abb; ACelt; ...
Thanks for the ping, Stoat.
All - was out of the country for the last month. That's why you didn't see any MilHist pings.

To all: please ping me to threads that are relevant to the MilHist list (and/or) please add the keyword "MilHist" to the appropriate thread. Thanks in advance.

Please FREEPMAIL indcons if you want on or off the "Military History (MilHist)" ping list.

29 posted on 09/18/2007 4:22:45 PM PDT by indcons
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To: MarineDad

Once again we see history repeating itself with another set of subhumans, the muslims. Yet we have forces in this nations government as well as the ACLU and CAIR that are coddling, protecting, excusing and encouraging these enemies of America within our own borders as well as over seas to act bolder in the face of what they see as a weak and divided nation. Come 2008 and beyond I am hoping for an awakening in this nation that will seal the traps of these loudmouth villans of America, but I am afraid we all might not see the bigger picture “ there once was a great land called America” Time will tell.


30 posted on 09/18/2007 4:22:57 PM PDT by ronnie raygun (Id rather be hunting with dick than driving with ted)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

I wouldn’t. Multiple generation later apologies are hollow words and vacant platitudes. They change nothing about the past and demonstrate nothing about the present and if they have an effect on the future it’s to tempt people to forget. We should always remember, but without modern anger, what happened 70 years ago isn’t the fault of modern Japan.


31 posted on 09/18/2007 4:23:25 PM PDT by discostu (indecision may or may not be my biggest problem)
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To: Stoat

My mother spent a couple of years in a Japanese concentration camp. When she heard that Japan was bombed with atomic bombs her response was, “Why only two?”.


32 posted on 09/18/2007 4:24:55 PM PDT by 353FMG (Government is the opiate of the people.)
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To: Stoat

I just glad their on our side now. We may need their tenacity in the coming years.


33 posted on 09/18/2007 4:25:25 PM PDT by usurper (Spelling or grammatical errors in this post can be attributed to the LA City School System)
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To: Thumper1960

“..I’d have liked to have seen him stripped, paraded through the streets of Tokyo and summarily sliced, julienne style before his imperialist cabinet and warlord officer corps.”

Tsk, tsk, very un-American of you.


34 posted on 09/18/2007 4:27:03 PM PDT by 353FMG (Government is the opiate of the people.)
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To: VOA
MacArthur was of the same opinion and greatly criticised by some for not ending Japan's monarchy. He believed that the emperor was of greater use alive and respected than dead at our hands and a focal point of religeous resistance.

America is great in the eyes of God because she does not return evil for evil in the way of some. Japan deserved, as do all the earth's nations, to be utterly cut off from the future and ground beneath the heel of it's conquerors! Yet we don't do that. We never have. If we ever do we will cease to be great!
35 posted on 09/18/2007 4:32:40 PM PDT by cartoonistx
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To: Stoat

When I was in High School, my best friend’s father was 100% disabled and unable to walk. A gift from the Japanese who had cut his legs open and sewn in dirty rags after capturing him. He lived in pain his whole life.
Nuking Japan was the best thing we ever did. It ended the war, saved millions of lives, and freed tens of thousands of people from medical experimentation by sadistic men with no remorse.


36 posted on 09/18/2007 4:32:44 PM PDT by BuffaloJack (Before the government can give you a dollar it must first take it from another American)
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To: discostu

> Multiple generation later apologies are hollow words and vacant platitudes.

In New Zealand we know all about multiple-generations-later apologies and it costs us plenty. Every time the Waitangi Tribunal meets, we say “sorry” and fork over heaps of cash.

I would like to see that happen to Japan. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If it is good enough for New Zealand to do _ad nauseum_ it is most certainly good enough for modern Japan to do.


37 posted on 09/18/2007 4:33:30 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Stoat

Max Hastings is the best WW2 historian I have read.. Armegaddon was by far the best book I have ever read on WW2!


38 posted on 09/18/2007 4:36:10 PM PDT by crazydad
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To: cartoonistx

“America is great in the eyes of God because she does not return evil
for evil in the way of some.”

That does remind me of the story I heard about how Japanese women got
more rights thanks to MacArthur (and a lady secretary) by exploiting
the Japanese sense of social obligation.

IIRC (and probably not with 100% accuracy), during the discussions
MacArthur had with the remaining Japanese leaders, there was a lady secretary
that did a “yeoman’s” job of recording the proceedings.
(Yeah, some of these “discussions” were probably MacArthur artfully
telling the Japanese how things would go).

Suppossedly, as things were being wrapped up in one of the final sessions
of the discussions on the new constitution, rule of law, etc...
MacArthur said to the Japanese delegates:
“Ms. So-and-so has worked long and hard during these sessions.
I think we owe it to her and the women of Japan to give them the votes
and many human rights.”

Apparently that Japanese sense of social obligation did the rest.
And thus Japanese women moved quite a way up the social food-chain
of Japan. Thanks to MacArthur and the secretary.

And if that recollection is inaccurate or only partly true...
well, as they say in Texas:
“If it ain’t true, it oughta’ be!!!”

And another thing that today’s high-school students won’t see about
MacArthur...
I can’t recall which documentary had it, but there was contemporary
newreel footage of MacArthur’s departure from Japan. It was like a deity
taking his leave from his loving supplicants...the streets were filled
with Japanese showing their respect for the man that helped defeat them.
And brought them out of the ashes (some of them radioactive).


39 posted on 09/18/2007 4:43:51 PM PDT by VOA
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To: Thumper1960
It is merely a pity they surrendered so quickly. It would have been fitting had they fought a few more months, and a few more bombs.

Actually it is a good thing for both sides that they did surrender after the bombing of Nagasaki.

After the dropping of the two prototypes we did not have any A-bombs left and would not be able to make any more for at least a year.

It had taken over two years to produce enough U-235 and Pu-239 to make the tower test bomb, the Hiroshima bomb and the Nagasaki bomb.

Mass production facilities were being built but the material for the three bombs had been made at what were essentially laboratory scale or concept demonstration facilities.

Had Japan not surrendered after the second bomb was dropped a land invasion would have taken place.

We were out of nuclear weapons.

40 posted on 09/18/2007 4:45:06 PM PDT by Pontiac (Patriotism is the natural consequence of having a free mind in a free society.)
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To: Stoat

America's leaders now grovel.


41 posted on 09/18/2007 4:45:19 PM PDT by Diogenesis (Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: Peleliu1944

WWII Ping


42 posted on 09/18/2007 4:51:07 PM PDT by SmithL (I don't do Barf Alerts, you're old enough to read and decide for yourself)
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To: VOA

“Hirohito’s descent from heaven”

And, it seems, his first time use of his godlike authority to command Tojo and his warlords to accept the inevitable after not one, but two atomic bombings (that it took two, not one, points to fanatical Japanese determination).

I was a 7-9 years old Army dependent in Japan 1956-58. Friendliest people I had ever known up to then. WWII consisted only of my Dad’s Nazi war souvenirs. Japanese kids and American kids played baseball together like there was no tomorrow - or yesterday.

Never have been able to figure out how the Japanese people went from fanaticism to docility virtually overnight. Some have written that it took only Hirohito’s imperial command. Others say that it was because Gen. MacArthur deprived Japan of their god-emperor, and then generously gave them another - himself.

But the memory of WWII Japanese atrocities must be forced, for their victims’ sake, to live forever!


43 posted on 09/18/2007 4:55:32 PM PDT by elcid1970
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To: Stoat
I recently looked over a book on the Rape of Nanking. I've got a pretty strong stomach, but I could not bring myself to buy the book. It was simply too repulsive to think of human beings treating other human beings like that. The Japanese deserve absolutely everything they got.

But now it's over, and it's time to move on. Forgive, but don't forget.

44 posted on 09/18/2007 4:58:11 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: Toadman

bookmark


45 posted on 09/18/2007 5:05:28 PM PDT by Toadman ((molon labe))
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To: Stoat
And don't forget this little tidbit about Japanese atrocities to American POW's...

Japanese Unit 731

************************************************************

Japan Admits Dissecting WW-II POWs

On May 5, 1945, an American B-29 bomber was knocked down over southern Japan. Eight American airmen prisoners were made available for medical experiments at Kyushu Imperial University. The eight were dissected organ by organ while they were still alive.

This is the only site where Americans were incontrovertibly used in dissections and the only known site where experiments were done in Japan. Kyushu University, Fukuoka, is midway between Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

46 posted on 09/18/2007 5:14:12 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: Stoat

Several of my uncles were Pacific island hoppers. (Dad dropped bombs on Nazi heads.)

As a little kid, I remember one uncle at family reunions would need to excuse himself and go lay down in a bed to shiver from malaria, the result of fighting Japanese in the Pacific jungles.

He certainly didn’t suffer the way our unfortunate POWs did, but watching him shake and sweat on the bed gave a young boy at that time some indication of how hard these men fought in WW II and the consequences years later.

I’ll never forget the sacrifices these men made.


47 posted on 09/18/2007 5:14:32 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: Stoat
"men of the arrogant nation which sought to treat [their] motherland with unwarranted contempt.

"As [he] gaze[s] upon them, [he] feel[s] as if [he is] watching dirty water running from the sewers of a nation whose origins were mongrel, and whose pride has been lost. Japanese soldiers look extraordinarily handsome, and [he feels] very proud to belong to their race."

Seems to be racism borne out of resentment or perceived slight ('they(x) looked down on them(y) first, so now they(y) will look down on them(x)).

Very human,
and the main driver of racism toward those of European descent today.

Thing is, counter-racism doesn't end racism, and just gives European descendants the opportunity to go, "Look, look, [they're] victims of racism, too."


48 posted on 09/18/2007 5:17:56 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: nkycincinnatikid
Duuude, I like the Germans. Just don’t play any ooompa music after drinkin’ beer with them.
49 posted on 09/18/2007 5:23:06 PM PDT by 359Henrie (We need Gen. Curtis Le May, Liberals give us Gen. Wesley Clark.)
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To: Thorin
But what incentive do they have [to say they are "sorry"] when so many Americans buy Japanese products and trash American products? It's not like the Japanese are paying any price for their barbaric treatment of American POWs and allied civilians.

I suspect the reason for their behavior is strong Japanese nationalism and emphasis on social order that has no external source of moral authority. When Germany came out of WWII and realized what they had done there was national shame. Germans knew the difference between right and wrong but had looked away from what was going on. In contrast, Japan’s war shame was not due their brutality at all, it was in their loss of the war; it was rooted in their failure to be victorious. Why would a nation with such a mindset apologize to the victors? They wouldn’t; they would apologize to each other, and so they did. That mindset has not changed, nor can we expect it to.

I wonder what price you would have them pay, who would pay it and who would receive it? Unfortunately there are not that many people left who were directly involved. Would you have the old guy in Okinawa send some yen to an old guy in Seattle? At some point it simply devolves to the same issue as slave reparations. Regrettable, but a reasonable solution is not there IMO.

Lastly, I would be more than happy to buy a Ford or Chevy if they were not junk compared to Toyotas and Hondas. I have been loyal over many years and my loyalty has been severely taken advantage of. I have had enough. The last straw was when my Ford Crapstar caught on fire due to the speed control switch – a well known problem that has reportedly burned down homes and killed people. Ford told me that no recall had been issued on my minivan, so it was my problem. I could go on for quite a while on that vehicle. Or perhaps everyone would like to hear about my Ford Escort – so named, apparently because one dare not take it anywhere by itself. Designed with an interference engine and a timing belt rather than a chain, it was only a matter of time (and not much time, at that) before it destroyed itself. Again, Ford told me it was my problem not theirs. I can provide similar Chevy experiences – the Caprice with “crow checking” paint that began to flake off after only five years (not GMs problem). The hot #1 cylinder characteristic of the early 4.3L V6s (not GMs problem).

Are there people who have had great experiences with American cars of all makes and models? Of course. Are there people who have had bad experiences, similar to mine, with Japanese cars? Of course. But on the whole, people are buying Japanese vehicles because they are reliably made, and they are avoiding American cars because they are not. It hasn’t got a damn thing to do with providing an incentive for an apology from the progeny of those who perpetrated the war by the progeny of those who responded.

50 posted on 09/18/2007 5:23:31 PM PDT by 70times7 (Serving Free Republic's warped and obscure humor needs since 1999)
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