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Study: Biofuels May Disperse More Greenhouse Gases Than Oil
Fox News ^ | Saturday, September 22, 2007

Posted on 09/22/2007 6:13:26 AM PDT by LoneStarGI

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To: mad_as_he$$
Guess I missed the day in biology when they talked about plants using Nitrous Oxide in their cycle.

All plant life is rich in Nitrogen. So all bio fuels that are burned have a chemical reaction that consist of many things such as H20, CO, CO2, NO2. For example, Natural gas will put out less CO2 than coal; however natural gas puts out much more NO2 than coal.

This is the first I heard NO2 was a greenhouse gas. I thought the concern was NO3, which is theorized to be a carcinogen. That is why compression ratios were turned down in gas engines in the 1970's and diesel engines recently have had exhaust modification to reduce NO3.

However, personally, I do not trust any of these studies and can't keep up with the new dooms day theory of the day. Oh, and ethanol is a boondoggle

21 posted on 09/22/2007 7:19:36 AM PDT by 11th Commandment
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Thanks for the figures. Is the figure for gasoline representative of regular unleaded or the 10% ethanol?


22 posted on 09/22/2007 7:38:23 AM PDT by Pablo64 (National Alpaca Farm Day is 9-29-07. Visit an alpaca farm near you!)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Sorry to double post at you, but I went looking for some stats myself after I asked my previous question and I am finding quite a wide variation in the answers. One site showed the following as stats:

Gasoline: 1 Gal Gasoline (mid grade) = 125,000 Btu's Ethanol: 1 Gal Ethanol = 76,000 Btu's

Another showed the difference to be less than 4,000 Btu's. So I guess we have a wide range of opinion on how much work one can get from a gallon of regular unleaded gasoline vs. a gallon of ethanol (10%).

23 posted on 09/22/2007 7:49:10 AM PDT by Pablo64 (National Alpaca Farm Day is 9-29-07. Visit an alpaca farm near you!)
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To: Brilliant

Ideally, but the study was more concerned with the additional amounts of oxides of nitrogen put into the atmosphere.


24 posted on 09/22/2007 8:10:46 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: norton

NOX concerns began over the relative ease with which the oxides could lose atoms of oxygen during hot, sunny days which mixed with other pollutants tending to form ground-level ozone - smog.


25 posted on 09/22/2007 8:13:24 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Pablo64

125 is a good number. N2FO can be 130-135. Reclaimed lube oil at 25 API is about 138-140. My biz is in the heavies (a man’s barrel.)


26 posted on 09/22/2007 8:54:15 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Go Hawks !)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Thanks. I've kind of been getting the impression from what I've read and heard that bio-deisel is a better way to go than corn ethanol (better for emissions and more work/gal).

Unfortunately, here in NE you can't tell the corn farmers that. They are ecstatic about the price per bushel they're getting for corn now, and it seems like there is an ethanol plant sprouting up near every town.

27 posted on 09/22/2007 9:17:50 AM PDT by Pablo64 (National Alpaca Farm Day is 9-29-07. Visit an alpaca farm near you!)
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To: JimRed; All

Compiled from Jack Herer.com
HEMP as Fuel:
Farming 6% of the continental U.S. acreage with biomass crops would provide all of America’s energy needs.

1
Hemp is Earth’s number-one biomass resource; it is capable of producing 10 tons per acre in four months. 1
Biomass can be converted to methane, methanol, or gasoline at a cost comparable to petroleum, and hemp is much better for the environment. Pyrolysis (charcoalizing), or biochemical composting are two methods of turning hemp into fuel.

2
Hemp can produce 10 times more methanol than corn.
Hemp fuel burns clean. Petroleum causes acid rain due to sulfur pollution.
The use of hemp fuel does not contribute to global warming.

And for the dolts out there who think you can get high from this form of hemp.......you can’t!


28 posted on 09/22/2007 9:28:00 AM PDT by wolfcreek (The Status Quo Sucks!)
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To: Brilliant
Yes, but the difference is that you’re not introducing any new carbon that wasn’t already in the atmosphere. Before you can burn it, you’ve got to take it out of the atmosphere by growing plants. Mind you, I’m not saying biofuels are a panacea. They are a long way from practicality, but more because of the cost than anything else.

Since man made global warming is a myth to start with we don't need a "panacea" for oil. What we do need is more drilling in the US and someone to work on a way to make Hydrogen a viable fuel source, not to offset global warming, which does not exist, but to take the place of oil when it runs out, which it has to do sooner or later. Get your brain fixed, it obviously needs it if you believe in global warming.

29 posted on 09/22/2007 3:53:51 PM PDT by calex59
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To: Pablo64
ON a BTU basis, alcohol provides less work energy than straight gasoline. I haven’t followed the soybean’s contribution but there other issues, including jelling of the fuel blend.
30 posted on 09/23/2007 5:46:34 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Go Hawks !)
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To: LoneStarGI
You can see how Nitrogen fertilizer use is impacting greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere in this chart.

CO2 continues rising, N2O continues rising and its impact is about one-third of CO2 overall, Methane, however, has stabilized and is falling.


31 posted on 09/23/2007 6:23:55 AM PDT by JustDoItAlways
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To: Beowulf

bttt


32 posted on 09/23/2007 6:32:18 AM PDT by steelyourfaith
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To: LoneStarGI; OKSooner; honolulugal; Killing Time; Beowulf; Mr. Peabody; RW_Whacko; gruffwolf; ...

FReepmail me to get on or off


Click on POGW graphic for full GW rundown

New!!: Dr. John Ray's
GREENIE WATCH

Ping me if you find one I've missed.



33 posted on 09/23/2007 3:55:34 PM PDT by xcamel (FDT/2008 -- talk about it >> irc://irc.freenode.net/fredthompson)
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To: NRG1973
That is they require one BTU of energy invested to get about one BTU of energy out.

I have tried to make the same point; the energy used to grow and make the fuel HAS to be less than the energy obtained in order for any alternative fuel to allow energy independence to happen.

If the energy balance is negative, then energy independence will not happen and we will dig a deeper hole. We may as well use the fossil fuels directly for what the biofuels being made are intended since in that case we will be further ahead.

Whenever anyone suggests the energy balance of biofuels may not favorable, they are shot down as disciples of Pimintel without discussion.

Pimintel claims that the energy used to make the machinery (etc) used to create the fuel must be included in the energy balance and his detractors say that is not valid since this is activity that is not included in the energy balance for fossil fuels.

This is a point I am not certain about but am very interested in. I can't help but to think that biofuel production and the industry that supports it is like a big energy perpetual motion machine that will eventually use more energy than it creates, ultimately coming to a screeching halt. There are some very smart people on both sides of this issue and I am not sure which side is correct. I'd like to see biofuels make sense, but I think the bandwagon is a bit premature.

34 posted on 09/23/2007 5:26:45 PM PDT by SteamShovel (Global Warming, the New Patriotism)
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