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To: LeGrande
In some ways I like the fair tax because it seems to be functionally equivalent to the VAT

The Fair Tax is nothing like a VAT. The purpose of a VAT is to impose taxes at each stage of production. The Fair Tax will impose tax only at the final state since embedded taxes will not be incurred due to the elimination of corporate taxes.

but I will never, never, never support it unless the amendment to the constitution for income taxes is repealed, first.

That would prolong passage of The Fair Tax. There is a separate bill, HJR 16, which repeals the 16th Amendment to the Constitution but it must go through a different adoption process than HR 25. HJR 16 has to be passed by a two-thirds vote of members of both the House and the Senate and be approved (or ratified) by three-fourths of state legislatures (38) Fair Tax FAQ #50 and therefore take longer than passing HR.25.

The last thing in the world that I want to see is two tax systems.

So does the Americans For Fair Taxation that is why AFFT is working on both bills concurrently. Keep in mind the FairTax legislation does three things that effectively dismantle the income tax: (1) it abolishes the IRS, (2) it repeals all statutory language having to do with taxing income and payroll (i.e., the Internal Revenue Code), and (3) it eliminates the filing of annual income tax returns to the federal government for over 140 million Americans. The 16th Amendment does not “require” an income tax, it only “allows” one, and the FairTax will have broken that egg in a million pieces.

It can be modified and changed 10 minutes after it has been passed.

Only if the people allow it to happen. Attempting to raise the tax rate would create two problems for politicians. The transparency of the tax rate printed on a bill of sale will make their constituents aware what is happening causing Congress Critters to experience the wrath from the populace. Contrast that will the convoluted income tax code that has so many loopholes and exemptions people are much less likely to know when taxes are raised. More importantly raising the rate too high will cause taxpayers to spend less. Less spending will mean less taxes collected by the government. Less taxes would force government to spend less. Congress can only maximize tax collection by keeping the tax rate within reasonable bounds. Founding father and first Secretary of The Treasury addressed this concept in his Federalist Paper #21. To quote:

"It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess. They prescribe their own limit, which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed-that is, an extension of the revenue. When applied to this object, the saying is as just as it is witty that, "in political arithmetic, two and two do not always make four." If duties are too high, they lessen the consumption; the collection is eluded; and the product to the treasury is not so great as when they are confined within proper and moderate bounds. This forms a complete barrier against any material oppression of the citizens by taxes of this class, and is itself a natural limitation of the power of imposing them. ."
70 posted on 09/23/2007 11:30:28 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: Man50D
The Fair Tax is nothing like a VAT. The purpose of a VAT is to impose taxes at each stage of production. The Fair Tax will impose tax only at the final state since embedded taxes will not be incurred due to the elimination of corporate taxes.

Well see I have a problem with the elimination of corporate taxes (not that I don't like that : ) ) I happen to own a couple of C Corps and that means that except for food I will never have to pay anymore taxes. How is the government going to tax anyone when everyone starts owning corporations?

More importantly raising the rate too high will cause taxpayers to spend less. Less spending will mean less taxes collected by the government. Less taxes would force government to spend less.

I just had to laugh when I read that. It was either laugh or cry :( See that is the problem. You seem to think that the Government has to be fiscally responsible, it doesn't. You have way too much faith in good government.

The problem isn't so much in the way that we are taxed the problem is that the Government spends too much. Until that little problem is solved changing the tax structure will do nothing. You are addressing a symptom not the problem.

101 posted on 09/24/2007 6:44:01 AM PDT by LeGrande (Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.)
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