Posted on 09/27/2007 5:19:27 AM PDT by xzins
Spec. Jorge Sandoval lay face down in the foot-high grass, staring through his sniper rifle scope at the Iraqi man holding a rusted sickle. The man had crouched down, only his head was visible. Sandoval's spotter, Staff. Sgt. Michael Hensley, relayed the order to kill.
On April 27, in dangerous terrain south of Baghdad, Sandoval pulled the trigger to fire a bullet hundreds of yards into the man's skull, killing him instantly. Moments earlier, the man, according to testimony and court documents, had been fleeing an attack on U.S. soldiers and was holding the sickle to masquerade as a farmer. After killing him, Sandoval and Hensley allegedly placed a spool of wire -- commonly used to make bombs -- on the man's body to ensure the shooting would not be questioned.
Sandoval's court-martial on premeditated murder charges for this killing is scheduled to begin today in Baghdad. As he and two other snipers face charges of killing Iraqis, legal experts are debating how large a role a classified program of "baiting" their targets played in the cases. The soldiers in the unit had the spool of wire, defense attorneys said, only because the Army's secretive Asymmetric Warfare Group had given it to them -- along with other items, such as plastic explosives and AK-47 rounds -- so the snipers could boost the number of suspected insurgents they killed by shooting whoever picked up the materials.
However, some soldiers serving in Iraq said that the program and the subsequent murder charges have caused them to rethink pulling the trigger in the field out of concern that they could be charged with crimes for doing so....make a split-second decision ...the man and possibly face scrutiny, or let him go and possibly put...service members in jeopardy in the future.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
I agree totally. On another thread we were discussing Ken Burn's WWII movie. In it, one of the Marines talks about how his unit never took POWs after seeing the mutilated corpses after the Japanese were finished with them.
In other words, he confessed to a "take no POWs rule."
Since there's no statute of limitations, they could still charge those WWII vets. Why don't they do it, if they're so all-fired determined to rake a fine-toothed legal comb through every action that takes place on a battlefield?
Like Las Vegas.....if it happens on the battlefield, it stays on the battlefield. A battlefield is pure insanity, the rules that govern it are insane, and any outsider looking at it has to enter the insanity to even begin to understand it -- and it is impossible to enter the insanity.
They need to start shooting the lawyers doing this sort of cr@p. Since the lawyers have decided to join the the war on the terrorists’ side, they need to be made legal targets for the military and the “unorganized militia.”
do the JAG Nifongs here have names?
if so, they need to be made into internet celebs
I never knew lawyers were a time tested method of winning wars. Of course this legal increase for the “protection” of our warriors. Hard to realize they say this with a straight face.
Keep these liberal anti American lawyers off the battlefield. If they want to walk in it, shoot them too. Having to justify a shooting after the fact in a war zone is completely retarded, and as we can see in this case, using 'aids' to speed up the process only results in aiding anti- war/ anti American leftist moonbat lawyers to smear those risking their lives and limbs stomping out fanatic Islamists who kill women and children without a second thought.
Why don't these leftist moonbats walk into terrorist camps with their leftist moonbat UN police and arrest terrorists for not playing according to the "rules" these UN peaceniks think they can place on warfare??
Democrats and American citizens who participate in this traitorous troop and nation bashing should be arrested and tossed in Gitmo with the murdering ( but oh so "devout") Islamic terrorists.
I'm so sick of the insanity going on in this country's government. It needs to be cleansed of all the rich elite idiots that have corrupted all levels of it so completely, and the departments of special interest groups, and restock all levels of government with sane, average American citizens, the very people who should be able to run for office but can't, because they aren't rich.
Only the richest, and therefore spoiled, out of touch with reality elite can run for office in this country, and lawyers, 2nd and 3rd generation Hollywierdo actors who live in a completely altered reality of continuous coke parties, smoozing with faggy "fashion designers" who make "clothing" no sane person would ever wear, and all the rest of the worlds weirdest "elite" (drug cartel families, Marxist elitists, Gaia worshippers, Scientologists, etc)
/rant
What kind of farmer carries around a sickle on April 27?
Here's my beliefs on it.
IF it can be proven that they were teaching our troops these "bait" related techniques about making a kill look good, then any confession of those actionsm or other actions any stressed troop might derive from them, should be "specially" Mirandized, and anyone who has NOT been specifically warned that admitting to what they were taught will place them in legal jeopardy should have any charges based on such confessions thrown out.
In other words, the Miranda warnings should be two-tiered. They should say, 1st tier General Miranda Warning: "You have a right to remain silent...blah, blah..."
2nd Tier Miranda "Bait" Warning: You have a right to remain silent about any actions even distantly related to "bait" techniques you were taught were OK which many now consider to be questionable. Anything you say...blah, blah, blah..."
A GRIM REAPER
Are you sure Zumbo would be using that black weapon?
deep skull :>)
There is no statute of limitations on murder, so why don't we bring murder charges against all the still living WWII veterans for what they did in WWII. In many battles there was a "take no prisoners" and "if it moves, kill it" attitude. Maybe we should track down all the guys who dropped bombs on Dresden and charge them with pre-meditated murder?
These prosecutions of soldiers who are simply doing their job are going to get us all killed!
Like Las Vegas.....if it happens on the battlefield, it stays on the battlefield. A battlefield is pure insanity, the rules that govern it are insane, and any outsider looking at it has to enter the insanity to even begin to understand it -- and it is impossible to enter the insanity.
Very well stated. I can only imagine the thought process of a GI after being in the battle for a period of time. They must never lose focus of the physical danger in front of them, and this kind of prosecution will get them killed...
Professional left-wing activists are in Iraq paying Iraqis to file bogus charges against Americans.
It’s treason. They want to emasculate our military via JAGS.
Sorry, I was partially reacting to other “baiting” stories.
Funny how they jump on the “bait” thing but minimize or exclude the “he had just attacked US troops” thing.
You got it.
The military legal brass wanted this case tried in Iraq to avoid these headlines. They did everything possible (including pressing the accused to waive Article 32 hearings) to keep this out of the sunlight. An extra burden was placed on the families to travel to Iraq.
The cause of this prosecution, like others, is that ROE is so complex that no one understands it.
Even experts on ROE, called in the Haditha cases, end up hedging, equivocating, and saying “well, it all depends” instead of speaking in straightforward, declarative sentences about ROE allows and doesn’t allow. All of which puts our soldiers in one hell of a bind.
Thats a very big skull.
No bigger than any other. That's what you call skill and training. Hitting a small target from a long ways away is what being a sniper is all about.
Good hunters do this as well. Plinking groundhogs from 500 or more yards away on a nice sunny Sunday afternoon is practice, and a lot of fun.
A well trained military sniper can make that groundhog 'hop' from 2 miles away.
There is something seriously wrong. You are absolutely correct. It has to start at a point no higher than brigade or division and then goes all the way to the top. I'm afraid it's careerism + political correctness = Betrayal level CYOA (cover your own ass.)
Girlene also points out a serious unfairness in regards to these trials. The military has intentionally kept them low key, tried to keep the trials overseas, tried to assign junior lawyers to the accused, has FULLY funded the prosecution beyond belief, and has kept quiet while the soldier families have to pay out of pocket for experienced legal help ($30,000+), airfare for lawyers and family to Baghdad, living expenses for lawyers and family to Baghdad, and has EVEN required the families to sign personal security waivers acknowledging that the military won't assist them with safety while they're in Iraq. I'm appalled at the treatment of the defense provided these families. It is bankrupting them.
Many don't know that freeper bigheadfred is the uncle of one of these accused soldiers, Spec Evan Villa.
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