Posted on 10/01/2007 5:59:05 PM PDT by american_ranger
I have fallen into no liberal trap. I know Gen. Sherman was right when he said, "War is Hell", therefore atrocities are a matter of conjecture that should only be resolved within the military unit that may experience them. We should have no reporters at the edge-of-battle in order to avoid the desire of civilians to apply "Marquis of Queensbury rules."
What we need to do is to argue that war is to be won. What are we prepared to do? If we have to be bigger monsters than al Queda, I’m willing to do that.
I wonder why you can not see that shows like "The War", produced by liberal defeatists, is a calculated effort of subversion?
I watched two versions of the attack on Monte Cassino, one on the Military Channel, the other by Burns. Burns’ version gave no context whatsoever for the long siege and why it was worth it. The MC version put it into the strategic context. In Burns’ version, it was just putting troops through a slaughterhouse for no real reason. Pfft! on this propagandist Burns.
Coffee tastes like burned toast to me.
My so called rant is fostered by the fact that I no doubt how important our fight against Radical Islam actually is.
There you go again with that personal nonsense. We are discussing the substance of what he said, not him or whether he was honorable or not. The issue in question is whether Hitler had established an occupation force for the US including training them and assigning them to various areas of the US. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
I don’t even get your point anymore. You know perfectly well that it can’t be proven one way or another.
Of course it can be proven. If there are documents or Germans currently alive who can testify that such a program existed, then it can be proven. Without such proof, it is nonsense to say that it existed.
If you a have problem with it I would suggest that you take it upon yourself to contact Mr. Burns so that you get in touch with the veteran in question and insist that he undergo a battery of polygraphs and possibly submit to truth serum to get at the truth. This is a thoroughly absurd argument for what purpose I do not know. And if you are successful then you can come back here and call me a liar or whatever else you choose and I will accept the label. Does that satisfy you now?
It is only an argument because you want to believe it is true. You make it a personal issue just because someone questions what is to me a very dubious assertion. It doesn't make any difference to me as to the source of the assertion/claim, only the veracity of the claim itself. Did such a program exist or not? As someone who has more than a passing interest in and knowledge of WWII history, I can pursue it without Burns or the veteran's assistance. That is the point. Stay with your cartoon version of WWII.
Why did you bother? You expected something else?
I agree; I’ve never heard anything like this even after reading WWII history books for forty years. I recall Hitler wanting to create long range bombers to hit NYC, but never anything about invading the U.S. or taking it’s “territories.” I think this veteran is mixing up his memories with U.S. propaganda vs. the Nazi version. Hitler’s plans were basically to take France for the humiliation it suffered in the 1st World War (that Hitler served in and was wounded) and then to take Russia, for his twisted view of lebensraum, or living space for the future German peoples, and to destroy the hated Bolshevic movement headquartered there. He wanted Eastern Europe secured so he could take Russia, and enslave or destroy the Slavic people. He only fought Britian because they came to the aid of Poland and France and the low countries. He allied with Italy and then had to rescue them from their stupid battles in Yugoslavia, Greece and North Africa. And worst of all, he knew where most of the European Jews were, Eastern Europe and Russia, and to exterminate them, he had to go where they were primarily located. As for world domination and all that other clap trap, nonsense. Hitler was a Germanophile and concerned almost exclusively with Germany, Eastern Europe and Russia, everything else being incidental to revenge and humiliation, or a mistaken entanglement. Period.
I saw the Military Channel version too and you're right. It's the same with Heroshima and Nagasaki - MC has always pointed out the million-plus American lives saved by not having to invade Japan. Burns is only interested in looking at the burn victims.
wxcellent point. if there is “liberal bias” in the series
its over my head. we cannot be reminded too often of the sacrifices our fathers and mothers made and Burn’s presents it admirably.
my dad is one of these, not in the show, just one sailor
on the USS Marcus Island.
And to get 200! HGWT!
That said, I agree with you that the immediacy of dealing with the conquest of Europe and the Soviet Union was his number 1 priority. Even assuming he would be successful, just solidifying his gains and dealing with a destroyed continent would be enough to chew on for decades. Projecting power across the Atlantic to invade the US would have taken an enormous investment of resources and involved huge casualties. The logistics are staggering. Which is why I am dubious that Hitler would be training forces and assigning responsibilities for the occupation of the US. Why would you be doing something like that for an event that might not happen for 20 or 30 years? It just doesn't make sense.
This book says that as a result of discussions by Hitler in November of 1940, the Luftwaffe completed plans to Bomb America from the Azores on April 27, 1942. It also proposes that he had every intention of following through with the plans after he conquered the Soviet Union. If he planned a bombing attack, he would have also intended to transport Paratroopers synchronized with a Kriegsmarine invasion. I was stationed in the Azores for two years, and the British fortification ruins that still exist there lead me to believe they took the threat seriously. I have seen this plan revealed in several places before now.
If The Battle of Britain had been lost or Operation Barbarossa had not been, you would possibly have no doubts that the plan existed.
“I wonder why you can not see that shows like “The War”, produced by liberal defeatists, is a calculated effort of subversion?”
Because it isn’t. It is an accurate depiction of what war is about and how people react to war. We need to be always reminded of what war is and not pretend it is something that it isn’t. I thought it was a brilliant series and any student of history who didn’t watch it isn’t really a student of history. They are blinded by ideology. There was nothing defeatist about it.
My uncle who died two years ago never really did get over the war. He was in the second wave onto Omaha Beach. I never heard him sing about the glory or praise war. No true veteran who has seen war is likely to either. War is a dirty rotten business that sometimes, as in WWII, must be fought. And if we forget that we are fools.
Again, the point under discussion was whether Hitler already had a program underway to train forces and assign them regions of responsibility to occupy the US. I seriously doubt it.
The difference between him and Ken Burns is the difference between steak and pablum. Burns is a 4th generation parlor pinko. Where old-time Commie Studs at least had the integrity of his craft and probably thought America was a good idea that would be better with Stalin in charge. and let his interviewees speak for themselves, and the reader draw his own conclusions, the Burns weasel desperately wants to guide the proletariat to the correct interpretation.
Today's leftists are essentially traitors just like the old-time commies, but a lot less direct. I would have sincerely regretted having to shoot Studs Terkel.
Your comments and rantings don’t deserve a response. But I wouldn’t want to end this thread with about “The War” without saying how incredibly powerful it was for many of us, and had a very limited bias on Burns’ part.
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