Posted on 10/04/2007 7:07:18 AM PDT by SJackson
I'm asking you which economists you think are better than Friedman who believe more government control of our economy would be better. I know Clinton has socialist economists, I didn't think many Freepers would agree with them.
“Require Mexican exporters to pay xx% of US minimum wage to avoid a tariff.
And that would have helped Mexico create more jobs?”
Absolutely, it would have increased the buying power of Mexican consumers, increased demand for goods and services in Mexico, and led to an increase in jobs in Mexico.
Did anyone ever tell you that a middle class with significant buying power is what separates healthy economies from poor, third world economies?
Ever heard of supply and demand? You just want the demand to be in the hands of the few rather than in the hands of the many.
Posted originally by dennisw
Warrent Buffett says it better than I can.
It's been fun, but I HAVE to get back to work... wannabe member of the productive class, don't you know... :-)
You need to brush up on Reagan and his wise use of tariffs.
“If we abandon free trade, we’re throwing in the towel on being globally competitive, and taking up protectionism again. Ronald Reagan would be ashamed.”
We can’t abandon what we don’t have. We have managed, negotiated trade that rewards some while punishing others in the US. And outside of Europe and a few other locations, most of our trading “partners” have very much kept their markets closed. They know that’s a proven model for growing their economies.
“Ronald Reagan would be ashamed.”
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Give me a little while and I’ll dig out the thread (a few months ago) where I asked ANYONE to point out ANY long term detrimental effects of Ronald Reagans’ tariff on Japanese imported motorcycles above 750 cc.
Let me just say for the record not one single person on FR came up with a shred of conclusive evidence of any long term detrimental effect of that tariff.
Guess what...go check out HD earnings / employment.
If Reagan didn’t shove that temporary embargo down the Japs throats 20+ years ago.....add up all the wages and the billions of dollars that HD has generated in 20+ years of turning profits....
...the knuckleheads still whine about having a few Americans pay a small tariff on a few KZ’s for a few years. OK.... maybe those dudes (like most cruiser riders) would have moved on to buying a HD in 2003, 2004.....etc...
Do a balance sheet. Who’s the winner here! Americans and America.
“Ronald Reagan would be ashamed.”
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Give me a little while and I’ll dig out the thread (a few months ago) where I asked ANYONE to point out ANY long term detrimental effects of Ronald Reagans’ tariff on Japanese imported motorcycles above 750 cc.
Let me just say for the record not one single person on FR came up with a shred of conclusive evidence of any long term detrimental effect of that tariff.
Guess what...go check out HD earnings / employment.
If Reagan didn’t shove that temporary embargo down the Japs throats 20+ years ago.....add up all the wages and the billions of dollars that HD has generated in 20+ years of turning profits....
...the knuckleheads still whine about having a few Americans pay a small tariff on a few KZ’s for a few years. OK.... maybe those dudes (like most cruiser riders) would have moved on to buying a HD in 2003, 2004.....etc...
Do a balance sheet. Who’s the winner here! Americans and America.
And the number of workers hired at x dollars an hour would not decrease when the US mandated wage is set at 130% of x? At 150% of x? At 200% of x? The number of factories built would not decrease? Ever heard of supply and demand?
but “economists” say it is good because it looks good on paper!
too bad we can’t out source economists. Then they wouldn’t be all rosy in their predictions
Maybe one in a hundred actually knows what free trade is.
>> The risk, and its consequences, should remain with the creditors who extend credit to shaky debtors.
” Alrighty then. Here’s where I get off the bus.”
This is testified by the statement of a prominent official, Alfonso Nunez de Castro in 1675: “Let London manufacture those fine fabrics of hers to her heart’s content; let Holland her chambrays; Florence her cloth; the Indies their beaver and vicuna; Milan her brocade, Italy and Flanders their linens...so long as our capital can enjoy them; the only thing it proves is that all nations train their journeymen for Madrid, and that Madrid is the queen of Parliaments, for all the world serves her and she serves nobody.” A few years later, the Madrid government was bankrupt.
If Warren is making the same point as you, he is wrong as well.
They went bankrupt because of free trade? LOL!
You actually seem to believe that because this is in print it must be legitimate. Personally the media has zero credibility with me and unless i can see the demographics and the manner in which the question was asked (context)It’s all garbage.
The economy has never been in better shape DESPITE the housing problem and if you want to know the real problem it is that people are uninformed.
BTW, who said Hillary would be the nest president? Oh yeah, that’s right, the media did. I guess that settles it right. You may as well stay home next November since we have no chance, The Media said so.
To the list of jobs that are hard to export like car repair and dentistry forgot haircutting.
What EXACTLY would you do and what EXACTLY would it accomplish towards lowering price on domestic goods that we all purchase on a daily basis.
“The economy has never been in better shape DESPITE the housing problem and if you want to know the real problem it is that people are uninformed.”
I’ve said the beast is going to be the next president for quite some time now. For a lot of reasons. I don’t follow the MSM. You’re assumption that I do is your error.
Just as your assesment of the entire economy. I work in tech, and tech people are upset about hiriing trends, (H1Bs), and offshoring. Did you happen to catch the legal firm’s video where they were giving seminars on how NOT to hire Americans so a business could hire H1Bs?
Your own personal economy may be great, if so, good for you. I’m here to tell you in my area, it’s not so good. And lots of people are struggling. My brother in law, a well qualified programmer, had to go to Arkansas to replace his job that was offshored.
Spout all the theory, all the stats, anything you want, people vote based on their own personal economy.
Yeah, and I'm a slavish adherent to other laws too. There's one called "gravity" and one called "the speed of light", and my favorite is called "the speed of sound".
Your arguments are predictable and unconvincing.
You can lead a FReeper to truth, but you cannot make him think. :-)
They’ve been tossed around for years and people are beginning to assess the results.
OK, getting very general here. "They", meaning the laws of economics, or various economic theories? They aren't the same thing.
You don't have to look very hard to "assess the results". The more liberty a people have and the more free their trade policies, the wealthier they are. That's the clear result for every nation on earth.
Economists and their followers want the US to pay the price for so-called free trade by opening its markets while many other nations keep their’s closed.
Wow. You've read the teachings of all economists? You're making some very generalized statements about "economists", as though they all teach the same ideas. Not only that, but you impute your own ideas about what "economists" want.
Maybe I'm in over my head here. You not only know what "economists and their followers" teach, but what all of them want as well. I don't have such magical powers.
The result can be nothing other than what it’s been: great benefits for those who own the factors of production and diminishing benefits for those who provide labor and lower skilled work.
Tell me about how free trade in the US has diminished the benefits of workers. That's a steaming pile of crap.
The average hourly worker in the USA has the equivalent wealth of only the very top of the food chain in most other countries. Middle-class Americans whining about what they lack is pathetic and ignorant.
The average worker in many parts of the world doesn't have a home with a door or any transportation other than his feet. Don't try the class differential whine here. Free trade has made every American far wealthier than they would be otherwise.
This is called efficiency, but one person’s efficiency is another person’s diminishing standard of living.
No, this is called a free negotiation. Nobody puts a gun to a worker's head and forces him to work for the wage he receives. What he is paid is what his labor is worth. If he wants more than that, he should learn a trade with greater value.
Labor is no different than any other product. Some labor is inherently more valuable than other labor. What makes something valuable is the demand for it and its relative scarcity.
Diamonds are valuable because they are relatively scarce, and there's a high demand for them. A particular rock in my yard may be scarce--there's only one just like it in the whole world--but there's no demand, so that rock isn't worth a lot. Water is in high demand, but is relatively plentiful, so it's not very expensive.
For labor to be valuable, it must be scarce and in demand. Skilled buggy whip makers are scarce, but there's not much demand, so they aren't going to be paid much. Fast food cooks are in high demand, but they aren't very scarce, so they aren't going to be paid much either. Skilled neurosurgeons are in demand and are very scarce. They get paid a lot.
Those are the laws of economics. Scarcity (supply) and demand. They are just as absolute as the law of gravity.
There are sensible ways to manage trade, but this bogus free trade that rewards some while penalizing others in the US will eventually have the result anyone should have predicted.
The result is increased wealth for all, just as it has always been. The differences between who gets more and who gets less are due to factors that are mostly within the control of the individual. Education, skill and risk all play a part, but the choices are individual ones.
Your “laws” might just be theories, or they’re being very badly implemented.
They're not my laws, they are just laws. They aren't "implemented" any more than gravity is "implemented". Like gravity, they just "are". And, like gravity, you can either learn to work with the laws of economics, or you can repeatedly try to defy them and fall on your face. Either way, the laws remain.
Please, feel free to share. Provide some of his "predictions and theories" which have proved to be wrong.
(Oh, and "worship"? Puh-LEEZE.)
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