Skip to comments.The Values Test [Dobson Will Back Third-Party if Giuliani is Nominated]
Posted on 10/04/2007 10:19:26 PM PDT by Soft Bigotry
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If Rudy gets the nod, I’ll support him because I can see his good points and his record as mayor of NYC. He’s not my fav anymore, and he used to be before I found FR. He’s not a social conservative really but better him than Hillary or Obama or Edwards or any of the dem candidates. At least he won’t suck up to Islam and the religion of hate and will support our military. He may not even sell out our country if we keep on him. I voted for Bush and still like what he’s done in some areas but he lost me on this illegal immigration nonsense. At least Bush is fighting the WOT and gave us a conservative SC. That wouldn’t have happened if Gore or Kerry were POTUS. He sucks on border issues to say the least but again better than what we would have had if he weren’t POTUS.
You have to be kidding. You think that Hillary Clinton would be better than Rudy?
If Hillary gets elected it is the people who voted for her who get the credit. It is not the people who voted for another candidate who should be blamed. In the case of Ross Perot there is nothing that says that if Perot wasn’t running that all his votes would have gone Republican. That is only hypothetical thinking and to use that analogy is wrong.
It would not be possible to examine either of their views. Both are politicians and will say what ever their constituents wants to hear.
And, though I understand that YOU are THE world view, you need to rethink this...
Hillary doesn’t give a crap about what you or I think. She will be driven by the fact that if she can’t demonstrate that she can handle the role of Commander and Chief as the first female president in 200 + years, she will be the last one for the next 200 years.
Think about it...
The mainstream media wants a Rudy/Hillary race. That way, they get what they want no matter which one wins.
Simple. In one case we’re all together inside our fortified city, and the evil enemy we all recognize is outside the gates, ready to attack with her hordes. In the other case we’re all together inside our fortified city, and an evil enemy — supposedly one of our own that some mistakenly think is a friend — is within, organizing his supporters to come at us from behind as we focus on the enemy outside.
The real argument here is whether or not Giuliani is an enemy to our cause(s). I firmly believe that he is; I suspect that you feel differently. But if he is an enemy to our cause, it’s obvious that an enemy within is more dangerous than an enemy outside the gates — just as civil wars are much more more bloody and dangerous than even huge wars fought against outside forces.
So, we can agree to disagree.
Just don't complain when Hillary wins the election because so many voted for a third party candidate and you can be sure that those who voted third party would have voted Republican because they would be following Dobson's lead.
You are right of course. Rudy would be the worst possible president. Worse than a dem...
“.....we don’t get our way we would rather have the whole entire country ruined and infiltrated and controlled by Satanist then to either shut the heck up or support the most reasonable, conservative, rational, logical and respected person out there and that is not the Hitler.....”
I’m sorry, but you seem to be suggesting we don’t actually get to choose who we want to vote for. Is that an accurate assessment?
If you want to use military metaphors, wouldn’t we want as many people on our side as possible?
If you want to insist Rudy’s a traitor in our midst, fine; you’ve picked a side. I just can’t promise you it’ll be the victorious one.
“Indeed... Ive been saying this for months. Hillary may very well be the toughest with the WOT. Shes going to want to prove she has testicles... She may even overreact.”
I believe, of all the candidates, she is the most likely to nuke any country that attacks us... It’s just in her personality to want to completely destroy those who oppose her. Unfortunately, that includes us.
Don’t be so blind... Rudy truely IS a traitor in our midst.
Actually it is very easy to see Giuliani's views. Read his views in the September/October edition of Foreign Affairs. This is not a journal geared towards constituents, but rather academics and those in foreign policy. In other words, those that would tell if he was just pandering. John Edwards also has an article in it, and while he isn't Hillary, you can assume his views would be similar. The difference in each article is significant.
It's amazing that the Rudy-apologists canNOT understand that!!!
Dobson needs to seek the face of the L-rd.
He needs to address issues and not people.
Black-and-white thinking is often helpful - but not always.
If you want to see Rudy as the antichrist, or like cherry, consider HRC a “Satanist” and “Hitler”, then I suspect no one’s going to change your mind.
Good luck with that third party.
I don’t have a problem with nuking our enemies, but that’s just me. I offered my (correct) assessment to the idiots that think Rudy would be the toughest with the WOT.
Now let’s get busy and nominate Fred.
Your reply wasn’t to my post but I read it so I’m replying.
I’m a Christian. Heck, I’m a practicing Catholic, I follow the catholic doctrine and not some willy nilly thing that changes each year.
My moral principles are important but I understand the rest of the country doesn’t follow my moral principles thus I will support any candidate who most closely follows my principles on this country continuing its existence. And I will continue to follow the moral principles as taught in the Bible and in my Faith as a Catholic (catholic doctrine editors of the Bible shared by all prostestant religions) and teach my children such principles. I can’t change the world but I can parent my kids.
So say it’s Rudy and Hillary or Obama or Edwards or anyone on that side but those are the 3 who will be. So, it’s unchristianlike to vote for Rudy but it’s okay to allow Hillary/Obama/Edwards to win? I completely disagree.
I also disagree that voting for Rudy would question my Christianity/Catholicism. Same as Romney, who I’ve read is sorta for gay marriage and all, and McCAin - too long to list, and Thompson, there’s his issues. So if we Christians vote for any of these candidates or the nominee, we’re not Christians?
I would be so happy if any candidate came out against abortion, in all situations. We see where that got Bob Casey of PA (former dem Gov.). Same for Santorum, former senator of PA.
I’ll vote for Rudy if he gets the repub nom BECAUSE he’s better than any dem running. And at least we have a shot with him. I won’t vote for him in the primary because of my Faith. I also won’t vote 3rd party yet, losing battle right now, nor will I vote for any dem nom, ever.
The only shot we have of limiting and eventually doing away with abortions is to elect presidents and congressmen who don’t support murdering babies on demand. And electing presidents who will appoint SC Justices who are conservative. We will never get a shot with any of the current dems but we do have a shot with a repub president even one who isn’t a social conservative imo. So we have Romney, McCain, Rudy, Thompson, none really social conservatives imo. I like Hunter and more and more Tancredo. But I will vote for the repub nom even if it’s Rudy or Romney or McCain, et al. It doesn’t make me less of a Christian or a Catholic, it makes me politcially smart, imo. I’m all for a grass roots movement and I will support it but I don’t see it helping in this election. I’m not willing to sacrifice our military and this mission for ideals. I want a POTUS who will support the military at all costs and none of the dems will do that.
Dont be so blind... Rudy truely IS a traitor in our midst.
I thought the Bug~Zapper~Thread and the FR~Mission~Statement
Made it clear ...
Perfectly reasonable thinking.
Most people fail to see the coalitionist nature of representative politics; Rudy would still have the support of Republicans in Congress and the backing of a national party, however weakened.
Well said. That’s my attitude too. I understand the single issue votes and those who cast them. I once voted pro life during an election thus voted for a candidate who had no chance of winning. My Dad, pro lifer, told me I threw away my vote. And I did.
I’m not willing to cut off my nose to spite my face and I’m NOT willing to sell out this country over one or two issues. I want change in my party but I also want a repub to win in 2008 because at least we have a shot then.
I will vote for whomever is the repub nom, like it or not. I won’t throw away my vote/vote 3rd party, to make a point that will be lost on the majority of this country. I’m not willing to chance this country/POTUS to make a point. I’m not willing to end up with a Hillary/Obama/Edwards/whomever dem POTUS for a point. We have to change this party, repub party, imo and give it a few years but not this election year. It’s too new imo.
Does that mean FR agrees with Dobson and will go third party, then?
You are so right!
Even giving credence to goofballs like Dobson indicates our political discourse is sadly lacking.
Rudy can beat Clinton in 2008.
I will not vote for Rudy the liberal.
Same here and I have problems with those mentioned but better them than the others.
Can't let that go by ... How would a New York City Mayor and noted former federal prosecutor be worse than Hillary?
“Rudy can beat Clinton in 2008”
I don’t think he can without the support of most of the social conservitives. I know for a fact that he would not get them all....
Hillary and Hillary-light
My sentiments exactly.
I’m a practicing Catholic/Christian and I will never vote 3rd party this election. A pro-abort dem or a pro-abort repub where do we have a shot? I know my answer.
I’m a repub because I’m pro military, pro gun ownership, pro life. Pro non whiners, the govt owes me, life owes me nonsense. The dem party is socialist completely now and I will never support that. We haven’t lost the repub party yet.
Liberal Republicans like JulieAnnie are much more dangerous than liberal democrats,,,
because liberal Republicans like Rudy BLUR THE DISTINCTION between conservatism and liberalism,,,
MAKING LIBERALISM MUCH MORE ACCEPTABLE!!
“How would a New York City Mayor and noted former federal prosecutor be worse than Hillary?”
Easy... As a liberal republican president he would get the support for his positions not only from the democrats but many republicans as well.
On the other hand, Hillary would face the opposition of the republican party. It would be much harder for her to get anything done.
“Does that mean FR agrees with Dobson and will go third party, then?”
Let’s pray we don’t have to find out... I signed up very recently, after years as a lurker, for the primary purpose of helping wishy-washy conservatives realize how unacceptable Giuliani is even to those of us who normally aren’t that politically active. A look at the mission statement will reveal that this is not and has never been a Republican website, but one for the discussion and furtherment of CONSERVATIVE ideals. Republicans have latched onto it and muddied the waters with their sometimes false belief that party affiliation is what defines liberals or conservatives.
That definition is becoming increasingly obsolete. We’ve been voting against our own best interests, allowing others to frame the debate in terms of “Stopping the other guy” instead of in terms of “Let’s do the right thing.”
Many of us have been aligned with the Republican party just for lack of anywhere else to go. Increasing frustration, repeated backstabbings, and the endless refrain of “Just this one last time, I’ll vote for the lesser of two evils” has grown tiresome. We can’t bring ourselves to donate money to the RNC until they fix our border problems, and GOP coffers are running on empty as a result.
The divorce from the party is well under way... The problem is, it’s not conservatives that started the breach. We have consistently told the party it was headed in the wrong direction, while rewarding its undeserving candidates with our votes ANYWAY.
I don’t know if anyone will form a new third party or not. But I can assure you that if Rudy Giuliani appears on the Republican ticket I will search high and low for a candidate I feel comfortable supporting, even if its the imaginary Blueberry Biscuit Party.
I find myself increasingly unconcerned with the political fortunes of the Republican party. I want to see some policy makers with some spine, who are willing to stand up for what is right, whether or not the GOP establishment agrees with them. As of right now, that is a daydream.
We are not slaves. We don’t owe ANYTHING to the GOP. They think our votes are automatic, because they know no matter how much we complain when it comes down to it we will support them anyway. This cannot be allowed to continue. So yeah, I can’t speak for FR, but for myself - Giuliani becoming the face of the Republican party assures it is no party I plan on attending.
Does that mean FR agrees with Dobson and will go third party, then?
Jim will speak for FR,,,not me,,,
As he said before,,,”A Hill To Die On”,,,As I remember of course...
Read Jim Robinson’s Mission Statement for FR...NO ROOTY !!
Statement like this simply show that you are basing your arguments on emotion, not facts. There is a huge difference between the parties. Your failure to recognize such shows that you have been fed talking points from who knows what source and cannot realistically look at reality.
Why can’t the Rudy-Apologists understand that????
I think it could be easily argued that the country and the globe have moved more to the left;
could we have imagined even discussing same-sex marriage, for one example, not more than 10 or 20 years ago?
I’m not saying I approve; I’m just saying “look around.”
I am a Republican because I am for smaller federal government, less taxes, and a strong military.
The GOP can not win without people like me or people like you. It may suck, but we will have to compromise to gain a GOP victory in 2008. Single issue voters who will not compromise = another Clinton in the White House.
I an pro military and I WILL NOT let Clinton become CIC. If Rudy is the person who can keep her from becoming CIC, then so be it.
BTW, as much as we do not like it, abortion will never become illegal again in America.
I completely disagree. I too want a repub/conservative congress but NEVER Hillary in the White House.
I really don’t think Guiliani or any repub candidate, even McCain, could cause the kind of damage to this country that Hillary/Obama/Edwards can. Especially Hillary. I’d rather see the latter two than Hillary in the White House, at all costs.
Hillary is the Clinton Presidency and I think we’re forgetting just what happened to our country during that Admin.
Hillary as Pres will do more damage in 4 years, and she’d only last 4 years, than Carter did during his presidency imo. I’m not willing to chance a Hillary presidency, ever.
I don’t know. Perhaps their closet liberals...
We are TOTALLY against abortion, the President can do nothing about stopping abortion but we can by having laws passed in our states against it.
No way will we give the Clintons another win. We did not vote when dubya's father ran because we did not like his politics. It was a huge mistake!
The Republican Party has been moving to the left for years. If you think that the Republican Party is JUST NOT LIBERAL ENOUGH,,,,
and you want to ACCELERATE that movement to the left to achieve the liberal NIRVANA of two political parties--BOTH to the left of center,,,,
RUDY IS THE RIGHT MAN AT THE RIGHT TIME!!
Er, um, okee dokee. Whatever.
Good luck with that.
Im a repub because Im pro military, pro gun ownership, pro life. Pro non whiners, the govt owes me, life owes me nonsense. The dem party is socialist completely now and I will never support that. We havent lost the repub party yet.
Ditto's to that!!
We are Mennonite/Christian.
Exactly. W's dad moved too far to the left, and he caused Perot to be an option. So now some want to AGAIN move the Party to the left with a liberal like Rudy???
Guess what? The same thing will happen.
If you want to elect Hillary by SPLITTING and DIVIDING the Party WIDE OPEN (just like it happened before),,,
while DEMORALIZING THE BASE,,,
a liberal like Rudy is the RIGHT MAN AT THE RIGHT TIME.