Posted on 10/05/2007 3:59:16 PM PDT by fifedom
Here’s one example:
http://www.corruptionchronicles.com/2007/09/rep_doolittle_fights_subpoena.html
You realize that this has been fought on constitutional grounds by many prominent folks, even Newt Gingrich coming out in support of NOT searching William Jefferson's congressional offices?
And you offer this as proof that Doolittle is "no longer the same man who came to Congress to do right by the country. Every action he has taken indicates this"?
Puhleeeze!!!
Your post demonstrates why you have failed to read (along with your friends) a damn thing I wrote. I have NOT taken a position on Doolittle’s guilt or innocence, only to state in the eyes of the people, it LOOKS bad, and that is all that matters, especially with a Republican candidate. In any event, because you can’t get to the individuals who have accused Doolittle, you choose to attack me for daring speak the truth that Doolittle is damaged. I’m here to say that you’re attacking the wrong person, pal. But, hey, you want to live in a fantasy world where the incumbent enjoys a 110% approval rating, you go right ahead. I choose to deal with the reality. I have one goal, keep rodent Brown out of that Republican seat. I’m sorry you don’t share it, because with your mindset, you’re helping to make Brown’s dream come true.
How so. Please explain your understanding of this "stone-walling" in detail...and what other "shenanigans?" Name one.
Still no reply.
No reply here, either.
I can't find an answer to this question. Was the question ever answered?
WHAT "strange behavior"? Please be specific.
And YES! It DOES matter if he's guilty or not.
Understatement of the thread. (But I fully agree with the sentiment)
Well, forgive me if I see that the way to make the Conservative Cause stronger, and the Republican Party along with it, is honesty and integrity, not having a public lynching of an innocent man. Where I come from, this is when folks rally for what is RIGHT, not try to bury it at the expense of a good man.
Will you be jumping on the Egland campaign? You know--the guy that recently moved to Roseville and just decided a year or so ago to become a Republican? You've told others on this thread to "wake up"--I ask you to take another look at what is happening here and see it for what it's worth (hint: Trojan Horses abound!)
White flag syndrome. Where is the fighting spirit among conservatives? This roll-over-and-take-it mentality as a response to liberal hatchet jobs is really discouraging!
Here's a thought: try throwing a rope instead of opening the floodgates to ensure the drowning.
Still no response to this one, either.
Yeah... no one should defend an innocent man if it stands in the way of the Party. /sarcasm
Listen to yourself! That kind of thinking makes us no better than RATS!
If we don't stand for principles, we stand for NOTHING!
In fact, if this is the way the "Party" wants to operate, they are going to lose me post haste!
For what? I'm being very serious here.
So you think I owe you an apology? Why? (Please be specific)
I would be happy to but I see nothing I have posted that would necessitate, nor warrant, an apology.
Why? What other benefits should government workers not be entitled to? Vacation pay? Sick leave? Health insurance? Salary? Why just retirement benefits?
Shouldn't government workers be entitled to a competitive wage and benefit plan, commensurate with the public sector? If not, what kind of employees do you think the government would be able to attract and retain?
Some people get damaged for a variety of reasons. They become unpopular because of votes, because of personality, or because of appearances of impropriety, all of which can be helped or exacerbated by the Republican-hating media. Another Republican in a heavily GOP state nearly lost last November in Wyoming. Barbara Cubin has no odious votes, she has an excellent record, she has no appearances of impropriety -- but what she does have is that for some reason or another, she isn't well-liked as a person. She just seems to rub people the wrong way, and because of that, we nearly lost the WY House seat for the first time since 1976. I am strongly urging Miss Cubin stand aside for reelection because of her personal unpopularity because there are other WY Republicans who can run who will vote identically, and hold this seat safely.
It is my similar reason for having Doolittle stand aside. It is NOTHING personal against the man, it is merely acknowledging that he is so damaged enough as to lose us this seat, and at this point in the game, we can't take a risk with ANY Republican so damaged in any contest to be seriously supported next year. This thread could be about Joe Schmoe representing some district in, say, Oklahoma. Schmoe has been under investigation, has associations with unpopular figures (rightly or wrongly), has had declining popularity in his district (dropping from 70%+ in reelection into the 60s, and then into the high 40s%), and the strain and stress might be causing him to act strangely. Most people are going to say perhaps Schmoe needs to go and let a stronger candidate run instead.
Some Republicans had exceedingly close calls last year that I'm NOT urging be replaced because it was the tide and not necessarily the candidate, per se. In this case, unfortunately, I am.
I'm reminded of last year with all the extremely passionate (and I'm being kind) defenders of Katherine Harris's candidacy, and I'm hearing similar arguments from you guys with respect to Doolittle. I strongly and unapologetically stated that Harris was a disastrous and divisive candidate, in fact, the single most divisive candidate in Florida -- of either party. I had to endure some of the ugliest, vicious, straight-out-of-the-gutter attacks from her diehards simply because I told them something they just didn't want to hear, and it didn't matter that it was true. I was accused of being a pornographer, a pedophile, a wife-beater (hillarious in all instances, especially the latter, since I've never been married). One of those unhinged individuals is now sitting in a prison cell for having sent fake anthrax to some liberal talking head. In the end, everything that I stated was correct, and Harris was beaten in a landslide against an unpopular Democrat incumbent, even as Republicans won other statewide offices in open situations fairly handily.
It becomes damn frustrating when you're trying to get through to usually sane people when they're so close to something that they are emotionally involved and it poisons their perspective. I have no emotional ties to any political candidates (perhaps only a slightly fleeting one to Fred), because in tying yourself in such a way, if something happens to that person that you have no control over, it can be damaging to you psychologically. I'm not a sports person, and I see similar attachments with people and sports teams, and these folks just come totally unhinged if something goes wrong.
You know me fairly well (I hope), and you know I don't go around smearing good Conservatives, it's why this anger I'm feeling towards me and the personal attacks are totally over the top. You know I share your goals and I want to see Conservative GOP governance, but this movement is bigger than just one person, and when a cog in the wheel is damaged, it has to be replaced or the whole works could be brought to a halt.
I'm telling you as a friend, as somebody analyzing this stuff now for 20 years, he is damaged and it doesn't matter if he is guilty of any crimes, because it already appears there's enough misjudgment on his behalf that it has fed the belief in that district that will have some Republicans crossing over to vote for a Democrat and depressing Republican turnout (or them bypassing this race altogether). 51% of the voters in Doolittle's district voted against him last November. We cannot ignore that.
Ordinarily, Brown should've maxed out in a heavily Dem year, but he never stopped running, and has drastically outraised Doolittle (the last report I read was that Doolittle not only had not done any fundraising, but was in DEBT -- giving rise to yet another appearance that his heart wasn't even in this race, that he may have been paying lip service to running again, but this above all else demonstrated he wasn't a serious candidate), all very bad signs separate and apart from issues of alleged ethical improprieties (you have to see that, too !).
Add all that up, and you can't win reelection under such circumstances while in debt against a fully-funded opponent that held you below 50% of the vote. 2008 is a Presidential year, and we can't afford for Republican turnout to be depressed ANYWHERE.
In any event, this is my expert opinion here, if it matters a damn. I know up until Doolittle, there were some people in this thread that actually valued it. I'm sorry some are choosing to trash it and my credentials because I'm telling them something they don't want to hear. If you're asking me to believe that everything is OK here and Doolittle is safe, I can't do it. We Conservatives believe in truth and not lies, and I think it would go against everything I stand for to tell you anything else but the truth.
Obviously you are are some one who has a strong connection to Doolittle. You are a true believer you may even be a close relative. Like Tricia Nixon you are usually the ones that are most let down in the end.
Okay, if I get all this right, I have "side issues", I'm not being "sane," I'm "emotionally involved," and have a "poisoned perspective." Thanks for the enlightenment.
Now, perhaps you'll just go back and respond to what I posted--directly.
...this anger I'm feeling towards me and the personal attacks are totally over the top.
Really? Where did I personally attack you? I am angry at what I see as a public lynching and allegations (mostly posted by others) that are patently false. Notice all of those non-responses on this thread?
I'm telling you as a friend, as somebody analyzing this stuff now for 20 years
As a friend, let me say that this comment is particularly condescending (to many, based on responses you got the first time you said it), including folks here with a lot more experience than you. The first time I let it go--this is the third time and it doesn't go down any easier. (If this is an attack, I apologize in advance. It is intended only as honest, constructive criticism on how to sell your ideas: Don't insult and put down everyone else, especially those you know nothing about).
51% of the voters in Doolittle's district voted against him last November
And 52% of voters in his district are not Republican. Do you think that people like Egland and Gaines going around fanning the flames and implying Doolittle is "ethically challenged" are helping matters?
the last report I read was that Doolittle not only had not done any fundraising , but was in DEBT -- giving rise to yet another appearance that his heart wasn't even in this race, that he may have been paying lip service to running again, but this above all else demonstrated he wasn't a serious candidate)
You're not looking at the same reports I am. He's done quite a bit of fundraising (but has been brought down with legal bills from a 3 1/2 year investigation in which he is NOT A TARGET, nor been charged of any wrong doing.
So, you can see into the heart of a man, too? That reminds me of a certain California politician. Why not listen to his own words and look at his own actions. Do you have any idea of the activities Doolittle has been doing in the district?
In any event, this is my expert opinion here, if it matters a damn. I know up until Doolittle, there were some people in this thread that actually valued it.
Expert opinion. There it is again. I value your opinion, as I value many, many others--but based on the merit of the opinion, not on the adjective attached to it.
I'm sorry some are choosing to trash it and my credentials because I'm telling them something they don't want to hear.
I didn't see anyone trash your credentials. I heard them disagree with your opinion and demonstrate absolute disgust at the baseless, unsupported allegations made on this thread.
If you're asking me to believe that everything is OK here and Doolittle is safe, I can't do it.
I asked no such thing.
We Conservatives believe in truth and not lies, and I think it would go against everything I stand for to tell you anything else but the truth.
Then I can only conclude that some on this thread, trashing Doolittle with innuendo, are not conservatives. Btw, that categorization does not apply to you, but if you are interested in "truth and not lies," I wish you had been more forthcoming in denouncing the lies on this thread.
No need for getting personal. Why don't you answer the question?
Are you in his district? Exactly who is "we" and how many constituents have you actually talked to?
That is all I need to know. No I do not live in the district bu the author of this article has access to people who know enough about the district to make the above assertion and that is all I need to know.
I did not live in the districts of Don Sherwood, Bob Ney, Conrad Burns, JD Hayworth, John sweeney, Mark Foley, Charles Taylor, Gov Bob Taft, Richard Pombo or any of the other Bozo’s who cost us seats witht here bull shit. But, anyone can see where this is going to. tell your buddy to either clear himself or clear out.
If he runs again and costs us this seat he is scum, slime, maggot, filth and crud. I have had it with this garbage.
No, I wasn’t trying to get personal, actually I was trying to disengage with out giving up the point or seeing you get hurt more because of him.
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