Posted on 10/07/2007 10:27:57 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
Russian S-400 missiles divide Turkish Air Force
Turkey's planned purchase of four long-range air and missile defense systems has reportedly divided the Tactical Air Force Command over the type of missiles to be purchased.
Though the preference of the new Air Force Commander Gen. Aydoğan Babaoğlu regarding the type of missile defense systems to be acquired is not yet clear, his senior commanders are said to have been divided over the selection of either Russian S-400 missiles or US Lockheed Martin and Raytheon-made Patriot missiles. Half of the Tactical Air Force Command's top commanders are said to favor the Russian missiles. Russia, which had previously decided not to participate in Turkey's long-range missile defense project after seeking to hold state to state negotiations as a sole participant, has also reportedly changed its mind.
Russia is expected to deliver a proposal for the tender before the end of this year, said Turkish defense industry sources. Russia initially believed that there had been a political decision in Turkey to buy US Patriots and thus it would be futile to compete in the tender. In the meantime, despite Russia’s initial intention of offering S-300 missiles in response to Turkey’s tender, it is now highly likely that Moscow will now propose the latest version, the S-400, upon Turkey’s insistence.
Turkey released a request for information (RfI) in March this year for the acquisition of four long-range air and missile defense systems -- Turkish Long Range Air and Missile Defense System (T-LORAMIDS) -- to meet the air force requirements. The project is estimated to cost around $1.2 billion. Turkey has long been planning to acquire long-range missiles to strengthen its capabilities to deter both ballistic and conventional missile threats.
Meanwhile, the Undersecretariat for the Defense Industry (SSM) is not expected to issue a request for proposal (RfP) in the missile acquisition project in order to allow US companies to compete. Unlike an RfI, which involves mainly information gathering on the systems to be offered, an RfP imposes some conditions that make it more difficult for the US to compete in Turkish military tenders, such as high-technology transfers that US laws do not permit.
But unlike the earlier practice, the SSM has reportedly eased contract terms and conditions to open the way for more US companies to bid in the Turkish military tenders, according to US sources. US Lockheed Martin and Raytheon are bidding in Turkey’s long-range missile project with a combination of Patriot 2 and Patriot 3 missiles under foreign military sales conditions.
Turkey’s main concern in buying Russian systems is Moscow’s negligence in supporting the systems it sells in the long term with logistics and maintenance, said local defense industry sources.
Göktürk satellite project
In addition to Russia, the US as well as French and South Korean companies declined to bid in Turkey’s 0.8-resolution reconnaissance and surveillance satellite system acquisition project, code-named Göktürk and opened for competition in late 2006.
The UK EADS-Astrium, Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), Germany’s OHB-SYSTEM and Italy’s Telespazio companies responded to the RfPs released on July 14, 2006, by the SSM and terminated on Dec. 18, 2006. The project is estimated to cost around $250 million.
Italian Agusta to challenge Sikorsky
After lengthy negotiations, the SSM is now considering the purchase of about 70 US Sikorsky S 70, Black Hawk utility helicopters, including 15 for the Gendarmerie General Command. Sikorsky plans to produce S 70 Black Hawk helicopters in EU member Poland and will market its helicopters via Warsaw to other European nations.
Turkey would manufacture some unspecified parts of the Black Hawk helicopters. In addition, Sikorsky would offer technology transfers to boost the Turkish defense industry’s infrastructure. However, Italian Agusta’s 149 multi purpose helicopter model is expected to remain in the competition to force Sikorsky to come up with more local content offer.
The SSM Executive Committee, the top decision making organ in defense procurement, is scheduled to meet sometime in November to decide on, among other things, a utility helicopter acquisition project.
03.10.2007
Lale Sariıbrahımoğlu Ankara
After the poor showing of the Russian-made systems over Syria recently, I bet that even those who were in favor of the Russian missiles are having second thoughts.
The proof of the pudding is always in the eating, and the IDF ate the Russian systems alive.
They should ask themselves who they need to protect against. Its not wise to purchase weapon systems from Russia, if they may need to deter Russia.
The TOR-M1s is what Israel hacked, which is more than 10 year old technology, no?
The S-400s are present day technology. Are they as vulnerable? I don’t know. They are superior to the Patriot in many ways.
Odd.
Turkey has used US Hawks for many years, and has faced down USSR missiles across their borders for just about as many years - certainly from the mid-40’s.
But, money talks.
The “new” Rusian missiles which Syria got were in service for less than 2 months-not exactly a convenient amount of orientation time in most situations.The Pantysr systems which they had are low level,short range systems-the S-400s are long range ones.
In addition to the very valid points rjp2005, Sukhoi, and Puzatei made, I’d point out that there were never even any reports that any remotely new weapons systems were guarding whatever the Israelis hit.
Even if the Pantsyrs were in Syria and the Syrian operators were proficient with their use, I thought that they’d mostly be used to protect the presidential palace and such against the buzzing that the Izzies have been known to do in the past. Ordering a short range SAM system and expecting it to defend a nuclear or other important military site without a mutually supporting layered defense comprised of other modern air defense systems is a recipe for disaster—especially with the Israelis being your opponent. Thus, ordering only a short range tactical system is okay if you want to shoo away pesky Izzie F-15s or F-16s who are making a statement, but not what you defending a major installation.
All we know, to my knowledge, is that the Syrians claim that Israeli aircraft were fired on at some time in their strike and that no plane was hit. For all we know, it could’ve been a ZSU-23 that fired on the Israelis.
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