USS Gridley
Posted on 10/11/2007 6:01:19 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
Arleigh Burke-class destroyers 'buckling' under stress, admits USN
By Tara Copp
Serious structural defects have been identified throughout the United States Navy's fleet of Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, Jane's can reveal.
The navy (USN) has admitted that many of the 51 ships currently in service are buckling under the stress of higher-than-anticipated loads at sea.
The impact of rough-sea slamming on the bow has led to warping of main transverse bulkhead beams and some of the cribbing, a source said.
Repairs and strengthening work is already being carried out on the latest Flight IIA ships as well as vessels from the earlier production batches.
In September, for example, one of the newest destroyers - USS Gridley (DDG 101) - was undergoing repairs for beam warping during post-shakedown availability (PSA) at BAE Systems' shipyard in San Diego, California. Weakened support beams were cut out, reinforced and replaced.
Specialised labour was required because the task involved strengthening beams in very tight spots above the Gridley's sonar equipment room.
But the problem is widespread; according to a presentation on 21 September by Rear Admiral Kevin McCoy, the chief engineer at Naval Sea Systems Command's Naval Systems Engineering Directorate, the navy approved a USD62 million "bow-strengthening backfit" to address "local buckling of deck transverse beams" and other structural damage in a number of destroyers.
(Excerpt) Read more at janes.com ...
USS Gridley
“You may fire when you are ready, Glidley”
Classic design issue. Let’s put a cruiser into a destroyer.
Who said they "can" reveal that info? Or should???
So you see it as the lengthening of a destroyer design to get a cruiser class on the cheap has led to having on-going structural issues?
Jane’s is British; that’s a British idiom. I think it’s intended to imply that they sat on the story until they checked the facts. Having done so, they “can now reveal blah-de-blah”. IOW, publish the story.
Jane’s is an authority on such matters. It’s not difficult to imagine that it “released” this information with permission.
“The impact of rough-sea slamming on the bow has led to warping of main transverse bulkhead beams and some of the cribbing, a source said..”
Global warming claims yet another victim. It’s Bush’s fault.
They probably wouldn't: the culprit is "higher-than-anticipated loads at sea." They probably did the math right, but the loads model was wrong.
A serious, but not necessarily an obvious problem.
The question is: does the same modeling error affect other ships?
I’m having trouble envisioning warping ACROSS the keel. Are the forces coming from the sides of the bow, causing the transverse bulkheads to warp vertically? Or are they longitudinal forces that bend the bulkheads perpendicular to the keel?
Yes, I’m sure that Janes did thoroughly check their facts etc. I guess it’s the age old question: when SHOULD such information be published... especially during a time of war.
It's probably almost impossible to hide it ... and since we're not going up against the Barbary Pirates in a pitched naval battle it probably doesn't make much difference. The problem has been caught, and will be corrected. There are probably lots of issues that are much more sensitive, and much more in need of being kept under cover. If we were currently in a shooting match with PRC, I'd think differently.
4. Were there any warnings of the problems as the ships were being built? Plenty and daily, but you had to have a few after work beers with the guys, and what the heck do working class shipbuilders know anyways? The ship was overseen by Navy engineers that never made a plywood skiff in any of their lives.
I don't get it. Is "specialized labour" referring to asian tiny-framed people? That's racist. I wonder if the criteria is that you have to be to fit in a dashboard or a car's seat.
Agreed, but can’t it be revealed after the corrective actions have been completed? I’m just a bit irritable this morning.
Trying to put too much into too little.
“Let’s put some 100km AA missiles in it. And AEGIS. And Tomahawks. And VLS Harpoons. And some torpedos. And a gun. And a helicopter.”
The Arleigh Burke was commissioned in 1991. They’re just now finding structural flaws in the design class? Or did they redesign the newest build hulls?
Yep..lets just stuff all of those guns, missiles, and radar and sonar suites into a canoe and expect it to handle and wear like a battle cruiser. That’s what cheaping out will do for you...
The USN. This information was undoubtedly classified before being cleared by the USN to Jane’s for public consumption.
Above my pay grade (and not even remotely in my field, anyway) ... but I'm guessing that they figured they couldn't keep it under wraps, so why waste time trying?
5. How much is this engineering design flaw going to cost the taxpayers to fix versus how much the engineers who designed it will have to pay? There should be consequences when "PE" is added after your name....
I wonder if this is a consequence of placing so much importance on “stealth” in the design.
Seaworthiness should come first.
On a tower crane, if you drill a 1/4” hole in a structural member to thoughtlessly mount a piece of secondary gear or equipement, you voided the design integrety of the engineered product.
On these big ships, where the overall structure is designed by an entire team of engineers, it isn’t possible to design for every concievable combination of loads imposed by the decades of usage issues. As AppyPappy points out, the ships are commissioned, and often later fitted, with all sorts of equipment based upon the usage and mission for the “platform.” Even with good planning and analysis, various combinations of loads, all balanced against a whole group of forces, primary and secondary, that the ship is subjected to under usage make for unique issues during the life of the ship that the original superstructure engineer can’t always anticipate and that the Navy or user won’t want be be restricted in attempting.
I don’t actually think that modifications after partial problems aren’t that unique — it happens with aircraft all the time. I think the issue here is that it is occuring across an entire class of ships.
‘The navy (USN) has admitted that many of the 51 ships currently in service are buckling under the stress of higher-than-anticipated loads at sea.
The impact of rough-sea slamming on the bow has led to warping of main transverse bulkhead beams and some of the cribbing, a source said. ‘
The Gridley was on its sea trials, and is cited as an example for all 51 of the Arleigh Burke class?
Incorrect.
IIRC, the Arleigh-Burkes at 8000 tons,
more like asking for the meager capability of a destroyer,
from a cruiser.
“...Ma bearins...Ma poor bearins!”
During WWII, as ships were refitted to better fit the battle requirements, destroyers ended up being top heavy. It was one of the contributing factors to the capsizing of ships Halsey lost in the typhoons he steamed into.
Of course, the Burke requirements could have changed too.
Come on this is Free Republic. No one is yet blaming the union workers in the shipyard? The problem can’t be from design and engineering. It must be the workers who are at fault, just like the Big Dig.
I don´t think it is a stealth, This has been a problem with US destroyers since at least the 1950´s.
I was on a British cruiser in 1953 doing high speed exercises with the US Navy in the Shimonoseki Straits, the US destroyers were dropping out one by one with their bows buckling and plates parting.
They say welding is as strong as riveting, which it is, but needs more skill and in those days it was much more difficult to identify the flaws.
Halsy ordered the ballast pumped out of the empty fuel oil tanks in preparation for taking on fuel. Those ships sank because of Halsey’s poor judgement, not because of steel in the tin cans.
Halsey should have been court martialed for the loss of life and ships he caused.
The problem is the crew is running up the revs and throwing it into reverse pitch on the prop. They play these games when they are bored.
The release of the info makes sense if you want to have an argument available for budget purposes, political purposes, or even laying the argumentative foundation for new ships a decade down the road. Better to expose it now. Cleverly Machiavellian.
Are they made of tin foil?
I hope airplanes aren’t made so cheap.
Didn’t Bath Iron Works in Bath Me. build most of these ships?
Failings of this kind are unavoidable. It’s what happens every time something new is designed and built. It would happen even if everyone involved was totally competent and money wasn’t an issue...which, of course, is NEVER the case.
I'm not sure Halsey ordered it, but yes, the seawater was pumped out in expectation of refueling, but the weather was too bad, and becoming worse, to actually refuel. It was attempted, but not achieved. Over two days, iirc.
The ships were still top-heavy, fully fueled, with the added armaments, armor, and other equipment.
Yeah, Halsey remained in command too long, as the war progressed. One typhoon, maybe. Two? Fire him.
Your light fiberglass boat rolls with the punch or is easily stopped in it tracks - trying to crash through with 8000 tons behind you is like running into a brick wall over and over again.
The design was outsourced to Sri Lanka.
Yah, while real Crusers and Battleships with 16inch steel belts and the ability to deliver pinpoint accuracy at 20 miles rot are sunk or turned to scrap.
The Navy Brass Hats are like the Kids of a Wealthy Parent who is inattentive.
They discovered the best way to get new toys is to break the toys they have or throw them away and cry. Then Mom or Dad buys them new toys just to shut them up...
Works every time and not just in the Navy..
W
If I told them young fellers once...... "White Oak for the keel, locust for the trunnels, spruce for the masts, pine for the decks." As usual they got it all backwards. Probably forgot to caulk the ceiling, as well.
I also warned'em against trying to make boats out of metal... bad idea. Passing fad.
It must be appropriations time again.
My father caught me slipping the clutch on our riding mower when I was young and I had to use the push mower for the rest of the year.
Not the same amount of horsepower from a mower to a gas turbine ship.
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