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Vatican publishes Knights Templar papers
Yahoo News ^ | Oct. 12, 2007 | Frances D'Emelio

Posted on 10/12/2007 5:00:39 PM PDT by Rennes Templar

VATICAN CITY - It's not the Holy Grail, but for fans of "The Da Vinci Code" and its tantalizing story line about the Knights Templar, it could be the next best thing.

Ignored for centuries, documents about the heresy trial of the ancient Christian order discovered in the Vatican's secret archives are being published in a limited edition — with an $8,377 price tag.

They include a 14th-century parchment showing that Pope Clement V initially absolved the Templar leaders of heresy, though he did find them guilty of immorality and planned to reform the order, according to the Vatican archives Web site.

But pressured by King Philip IV of France, Clement later reversed his decision and suppressed the order in 1312.

Only 799 copies of the 300-page volume, "Processus Contra Templarios," — Latin for "Trial against the Templars" — are for sale, said Scrinium publishing house, which prints documents from the Vatican's secret archives. Each will cost $8,377, the publisher said Friday.

An 800th copy will go to Pope Benedict XVI, said Barbara Frale, the researcher who found the long-overlooked parchment tucked away in the archives in 2001.

The Knights Templar, which ultimately disappeared because of the heresy scandal, recently captivated the imagination of readers of the best-seller "The Da Vinci Code," which linked the order to the legend of the Holy Grail.

The new Vatican work reproduces the entire documentation of the papal hearings convened after Philip IV of France arrested and tortured Templar leaders in 1307 on charges of heresy and immorality.

The military order of the Poor Knights of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon was founded in 1118 in Jerusalem to protect pilgrims in the Holy Land after the First Crusade.

As their military might increased, the Templars also grew in wealth, acquiring property throughout Europe and running a primitive banking system. After they left the Middle East with the collapse of the Crusader kingdoms, their power and secretive ways aroused the fear of European rulers and sparked accusations of corruption and blasphemy.

Historians believe Philip owed debts to the Templars and used the accusations to arrest their leaders and extract, under torture, confessions of heresy in order to seize the order's riches.

The publishing house said the new book includes the "Parchment of Chinon," a 1308 decision by Clement to save the Templars and their order.

Frale said the three-foot-wide document probably had been ignored because a catalog entry in 1628 was "too vague."

"Unfortunately, there was an archiving error, an error in how the document was described," she told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from her home in Viterbo, north of Rome. "More than an error, it was a little sketchy."

The parchment, in remarkably good condition considering its 700 years, apparently had last been consulted at the start of the 20th century, Frale said, surmising that its significance must not have been realized then.

Frale said she was intrigued by the 1628 entry because, while it apparently referred to some minor matter, it noted that three top cardinals, including Pope Clement's right-hand man, Berenger Fredol, had made a long journey to interrogate someone.

"Going on with my research, it turned out that in reality it was an inquest of very great importance," she said.

Fredol "had gone to question the Great Master and other heads of the Templars who had been segregated, practically kidnapped, by the king of France and shut up in secret in his castle in Chinon on the Loire."

Jacques de Molay, Grand Master of the Templars, was burned at the stake in 1314 along with his aides.

The surviving monks fled. Some were absorbed by other orders, and over the centuries, various groups have claimed to be descended from the Templars.

As for Clement, he "was a hostage in French territory" on the eve of what historians would call the Avignon period of popes, Frale said.

She said the parchment reveals the cardinals reached the conclusion the Templars were guilty of abuses but not "a real and true heresy."

"There were a lot of faults in the order — abuses, violence ... a lot of sins, but not heresy," she said.

These included forcing new recruits to "reject Christ in words and spit on the cross," in imitation of the violence suffered by knights when captured by Muslims, Frale said. New members were kicked and punched if they refused to undergo this kind of hazing, she added.

Philip had "confiscated all the wealth of the order, which he used to pay his debts," said Frale, who has written three books about the Templars. "Had the (order) survived, it's clear that Philip ... would have had to give back all" the wealth.

"But the king of France had already spent it," she said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: alreadyposted; churchhistory; knightstemplar; vatican
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"...being published in a limited edition — with an $8,377 price tag."

Waiting for the internet version.

"She said the parchment reveals the cardinals reached the conclusion the Templars were guilty of abuses but not "a real and true heresy."

I'm sure the slaughtered Knights are rejoicing to hear that.

1 posted on 10/12/2007 5:00:40 PM PDT by Rennes Templar
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To: mnehrling

ping


2 posted on 10/12/2007 5:04:17 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: Rennes Templar

Amusingly, doesn’t this mean that the descendants of the slaughtered Templars should be able to sue France for damages plus interest?


3 posted on 10/12/2007 5:04:42 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Rennes Templar

I wonder what they charge for a bible?


4 posted on 10/12/2007 5:05:13 PM PDT by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: Spktyr
the descendants of the slaughtered Templars

I think their monastic vow of chastity would have precluded descendants, at least legitimate ones.

5 posted on 10/12/2007 5:08:21 PM PDT by Argus
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To: Rennes Templar

Anything on the trilateral commission??


6 posted on 10/12/2007 5:09:58 PM PDT by Perdogg (Join the NCAA basketball thread - Freemail me - Go tarheels!)
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To: Spktyr

Yes in the amusing sense. But on the other hand, they were noble.


7 posted on 10/12/2007 5:10:09 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: Spktyr

Reparations are all the rage these days.

For what they are charging...........


8 posted on 10/12/2007 5:10:17 PM PDT by Delta 21 ( MKC USCG - ret)
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To: Argus

Many monks of the era had families before they became monks.
I would assume it was no different for the Templars.


9 posted on 10/12/2007 5:11:19 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Rennes Templar
“The Da Vinci Code”

The most believable lies are based on half-truths.

10 posted on 10/12/2007 5:12:04 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: Rennes Templar
Each will cost $8,377

So the Roman Church created history of a slaughter and then sells that history?

Oh joy! What's next -- Russia releasing Stalin's order to kill all those Polish Officers for Marilyn Monroe's signature? (In case you didn't know, the Russians are nuts about the blonde...

11 posted on 10/12/2007 5:12:14 PM PDT by John123 ("What good fortune for the governments that the people do not think" -- Adolf Hitler)
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To: Rennes Templar

bookmark


12 posted on 10/12/2007 5:12:40 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Spktyr

Your point is well taken. Their collateral descendants clearly have a bone to pick with les Francais.


13 posted on 10/12/2007 5:13:55 PM PDT by Argus
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To: Rennes Templar

“Secret” archives = private/separate archives. To translate segreto as secret is just plain false because it conveys a meaning untrue to the original language. Anybody who’s done a smidgin of translating knows that sometimes the word that sounds the same in the target language is exactly the word you can’t use if you want to convey accurate meaning.


14 posted on 10/12/2007 5:14:21 PM PDT by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

“The most believable lies are based on half-truths.”

As are some of our most sacred beliefs.


15 posted on 10/12/2007 5:14:32 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: Rennes Templar
The Templars were the first bankers of the world. When they were attacked by the King of France and the Pope, most disappeared and with them their assets. No one is really sure where they went but there is one story of a large group of them moving east of France to the mountains north of Italy into what is now modern day Switzerland.

Swiss Flag

Templar Shield

Coincidence?

16 posted on 10/12/2007 5:14:45 PM PDT by Bob J (sis)
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To: Rennes Templar

King Philip IV owed the Templars money. Pope Clement V cut a deal with Philip and the Templars died as a result. The Catholic Encyclopedia which blames certain nobles in Philip’s court for the Pope’s condemnation of the Templars is going to have to be re-written to blame the Pope as co-conspirator for the murder of the Templars and the theft of their property.


17 posted on 10/12/2007 5:15:03 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: Rennes Templar
How long before it is translated into English and put on the inter-net?
18 posted on 10/12/2007 5:16:16 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
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To: John123

The Templars were slaughtered by the French king as part of the consolidation of power that led to royal absolutism in France, England, Spain etc. Documents about it are found in French archives as well as archives in Rome. The history was created by the king of France; records of it were created by the various people involved. The “Roman Church” (to use your polemic language) is simply making documents available. That costs money. It’s normal for researchers to pay fees for obtaining documents, as any genealogist will tell you.

Why don’t you take your animosity toward the “Roman Church” and shove it?


19 posted on 10/12/2007 5:17:36 PM PDT by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

Should take about 12 to 24 hours, judging by current standards...


20 posted on 10/12/2007 5:21:26 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: Rennes Templar
"There were a lot of faults in the order — abuses, violence ... a lot of sins, but not heresy," she said. These included forcing new recruits to "reject Christ in words and spit on the cross," in imitation of the violence suffered by knights when captured by Muslims, Frale said. New members were kicked and punched if they refused to undergo this kind of hazing, she added.

Sounds like a bunch of fruitcakes to me. There is no way in hell that these fellers are stand-up believers. That said, the book would be cool to read - I think I'll put in a purchase request at the public library.
21 posted on 10/12/2007 5:23:41 PM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Have you developed your 2008 bug-out plan?)
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To: Dionysiusdecordealcis

So you’re saying the Roman Catholic hierarchy were mere bystanders during the Knights demise?


22 posted on 10/12/2007 5:23:43 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: WorkingClassFilth

“Sounds like a bunch of fruitcakes to me.”

The Knights Templar, during their relatively short span of activity, contributed more to the development of western civilization than any other group in history.


23 posted on 10/12/2007 5:27:50 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: Dionysiusdecordealcis
Historians believe Philip owed debts to the Templars and used the accusations to arrest their leaders and extract, under torture, confessions of heresy in order to seize the order's riches.

The Templars were slaughtered by the French king as part of the consolidation of power that led to royal absolutism in France, England, Spain etc. Documents about it are found in French archives as well as archives in Rome. The history was created by the king of France; records of it were created by the various people involved. The “Roman Church” (to use your polemic language) is simply making documents available. That costs money. It’s normal for researchers to pay fees for obtaining documents, as any genealogist will tell you.

...

The French weren't alone in that regard. The German Princes of the Heretic Martin Luther's day, didn't have a love for his changes as much as the pretty plum of the Vatican's property.

24 posted on 10/12/2007 5:35:49 PM PDT by olde north church (Epitaph for America: We weren't humble enough to be pragmatic.)
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To: Argus

Many who joined the Templars in the Holy Land left the active organization on return to Europe. There the Templar organization funded cathedrals, abbeys, hospitals, etc. Only the Knights on duty, so to speak, were expected to observe celibacy.


25 posted on 10/12/2007 5:38:24 PM PDT by Melchior
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To: Rennes Templar

When I contracted for one of the Big Six accounting firms, their volumes of 5-year market projections cost $800 a pop, and they were on nasty part-recycled paper, with PowerPoint illustrations and cardboard covers.


26 posted on 10/12/2007 5:40:03 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: Rennes Templar
Only 799 copies of the 300-page volume, "Processus Contra Templarios," are for sale, said Scrinium publishing house, which prints documents from the Vatican's secret archives. Each will cost $8,377, the publisher said Friday.

What are they, hand-made illuminated manuscripts? Geez, I'll buy 'em a copy of Adobe Acrobat so they can PDF the thing.

27 posted on 10/12/2007 5:48:36 PM PDT by LibFreeOrDie (L'Chaim!)
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To: Argus
I think their monastic vow of chastity would have precluded descendants, at least legitimate ones.

Normally a dissolved order’s property should be returned to the mother church.

So France owes the Roman Catholic Church likely in today’s money trillions of dollars.

28 posted on 10/12/2007 5:52:52 PM PDT by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: Rennes Templar
The Knights Templar, during their relatively short span of activity, contributed more to the development of western civilization than any other group in history.

How so?

BTW, if their behavior is correctly portrayed in this caption, they've got a lot of 'splainin' to do.
29 posted on 10/12/2007 5:53:05 PM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Have you developed your 2008 bug-out plan?)
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To: Rennes Templar

Could you point me to something credible (and less expensive) to read about the Knights Templar since you seem to know a great deal....and, frankly, I know basically, nothing....think this would be of great interest to young relatives, too. Thanks for any thoughts/guidance.


30 posted on 10/12/2007 5:56:07 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Being Challenged Builds Character! Being Coddled Destroys Character!)
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To: RKV
The Catholic Encyclopedia which blames certain nobles in Philip’s court for the Pope’s condemnation of the Templars is going to have to be re-written to blame the Pope as co-conspirator for the murder of the Templars and the theft of their property.

I don’t think so.

As for Clement, he "was a hostage in French territory" on the eve of what historians would call the Avignon period of popes, Frale said.

I think King Philip would have a certain influence with a Pope which was basically his prisoner.

31 posted on 10/12/2007 5:58:50 PM PDT by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: John123
I am certain you don’t get what is being said or is this your turn to bash the Catholic Church?

The article said: “Fredol “had gone to question the Great Master and other heads of the Templars who had been segregated, practically kidnapped, by the king of France and shut up in secret in his castle in Chinon on the Loire.”

Jacques de Molay, Grand Master of the Templars, was burned at the stake in 1314 along with his aides.”

The quote above means that Philip, king of France, had the Templars killed not the Catholic Church. It also means the Church through Pope Clements emissary, Fredohl discovered the treachery of Philip, reported it back to the Pope who documented it and put in the Church archives, recently discovered and published by the Catholic Church. And the Catholic Church did what wrong???

Well thought out comments on your part!
Lurking’

32 posted on 10/12/2007 6:08:59 PM PDT by LurkingSince'98
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To: Rennes Templar
As are some many of our most sacred beliefs.

And the sad part is, that take away the half-truths, and the bare bones truths are far more beautiful and believable

33 posted on 10/12/2007 6:16:48 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" LINCOLN)
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To: Bob J

ZOMG!!!! That same symbol is on my band-aids! Are there Templars in my medicine cabinet?


34 posted on 10/12/2007 6:18:41 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: Dionysiusdecordealcis

tut tut, Di

take a deep breath


35 posted on 10/12/2007 6:19:26 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" LINCOLN)
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To: Rennes Templar
The Knights Templar, during their relatively short span of activity, contributed more to the development of western civilization than any other group in history.

They were a danger to Rome because they knew the truth - and revered the truth, not what was concocted hundreds of years after the Crucifixion

running for cover

36 posted on 10/12/2007 6:23:45 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" LINCOLN)
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To: Bob J
Inverted colors, try Knights Hospitaller for a closer match.

The one on the left is a Hospitaller and the right is a Templar.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

37 posted on 10/12/2007 6:26:23 PM PDT by Xenophon450 (They say it's lonely at the top, then I am as lonely as can be.)
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To: Rennes Templar

Not if they are issues of faith.


38 posted on 10/12/2007 6:27:06 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: maine-iac7
What truth did they “know” that was a danger to Rome??

Maybe you are from Rio Lindo, but Philip had the means motive and opportunity and did in fact wipe out the Templars not the Pope.

What specifically was concocted hundred years after the Crucifixication?

Lurking’

39 posted on 10/12/2007 6:28:52 PM PDT by LurkingSince'98
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To: Rennes Templar
And of course the motives are contrary.

The one seeks to find truth, despite the potential for human error.

The other seeks to deceive.

40 posted on 10/12/2007 6:29:24 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: toomanygrasshoppers

PING


41 posted on 10/12/2007 6:30:57 PM PDT by FrogHawk (watchforlowflyingfrogs)
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To: Rennes Templar
I'm going to have to update my edition of the Illuminati card game . . .
FNORD!

42 posted on 10/12/2007 6:31:48 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (When the dog bites, when the bee stings, when you're feeling sad ... Bush's fault.)
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine
I wonder what they charge for a bible?

The Roman Catholic Church has traditionally opposed Bibles in the hands of the laity.

From the Council of Toulouse:

Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.

From the Council of Tarragona:

Canon 2. No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion.

And the current RCC has been silent on the matter of allowing private interpretation although they've had to get with the program on free speech because their bans on vernacular Bibles (which were last stated in the 1983 Code of Canon Law) are wholly irrelavant to the citizens of free nations. The RCC may yet still frown on people having their own Bibles but they are utterly powerless to do anything about it.

Which is as it should be.

43 posted on 10/12/2007 6:36:56 PM PDT by PeterFinn (Miller Beer? I *pee* better beer.)
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To: WorkingClassFilth

Absent the Templars there would be no Western Civilization.


44 posted on 10/12/2007 6:39:16 PM PDT by PeterFinn (Miller Beer? I *pee* better beer.)
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To: Rennes Templar

saving


45 posted on 10/12/2007 7:09:11 PM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: Spktyr

“Amusingly, doesn’t this mean that the descendants of the slaughtered Templars should be able to sue France for damages plus interest?”

After the Terror, doubtful...


46 posted on 10/12/2007 7:17:06 PM PDT by Jim Verdolini
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To: Dionysiusdecordealcis
Why don’t you take your animosity toward the “Roman Church” and shove it?

OH!!! You didn't turn the other cheek like Jesus says...

And no matter how you "spin it" the Roman Catholic Church was complicit in that sordid chapter. 20 Hail Marys for you sinner...

47 posted on 10/12/2007 7:21:47 PM PDT by John123 ("What good fortune for the governments that the people do not think" -- Adolf Hitler)
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To: LurkingSince'98
I am certain you don’t get what is being said or is this your turn to bash the Catholic Church?

You are the second moron to ask me this. What is wrong with you? It seems the Muslims aren't the ONLY religion that is zealously defended to the death. And quite frankly, the Roman Catholic church has done a LOT to deserve being bashed. But that wasn't my intention in my previous post.

20 Hail Marys for you too, sir/madam!

48 posted on 10/12/2007 7:26:19 PM PDT by John123 ("What good fortune for the governments that the people do not think" -- Adolf Hitler)
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To: LurkingSince'98
I am certain you don’t get what is being said or is this your turn to bash the Catholic Church?

You are the second moron to ask me this. What is wrong with you? It seems the Muslims aren't the ONLY religion that is zealously defended to the death. And quite frankly, the Roman Catholic church has done a LOT to deserve being bashed. But that wasn't my intention in my previous post.

20 Hail Marys for you too, sir/madam!

49 posted on 10/12/2007 7:26:24 PM PDT by John123 ("What good fortune for the governments that the people do not think" -- Adolf Hitler)
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To: LibFreeOrDie

I wait until I see one for $9.99 on eBay.


50 posted on 10/12/2007 7:44:36 PM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (My number one goal in life is to leave a bigger carbon footprint than Al Gore.)
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