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To: Rennes Templar; ottoman

Wow. You make a lot of presumption.

>> IMHO, the concept of the crucifix is an idea that runs counter to Christ’s teaching. Jesus was on the cross for 3 hours; the church has had him there 2000 years. His victory over death, not his death, was what I believe he wanted us to focus on. These are concepts I believe the Templars knew and were a threat to the church. <<

Then why were the Knights Templar conducting the tours to go visit Golgotha? Why did they adopt the cross as their emblem? Why did all the churches they helped establish have huge crosses hanging in them?

Consider that the pope regarded them as innocent of the crimes he had jurisdiction over, heresy, but noted that they were probably guilty of crimes he didn’t: spitting on the cross as a matter of ritual, sexual misconduct, etc. If the pope were slandering them by accusing them of misconduct, wouldn’t he have made public his slander, and downplayed is vindication? Wouldn’t he have slandered them about things in his purview? Instead, what we have is the pope fighting with Philip that the Knights were innocent of the crimes in his purview, even though he believed the Knights to be guilty of other severe crimes. The disbanding of the Knights was only sensible (and hardly a grave punishment!), since they no longer served their purpose, and, fairly or not, had become quite infamous.

Philip was a nasty man, including having committed horrid atrocities against the Knights Templar. But he hardly represented the Catholic Church, even having been ex-communicated. The action of the Catholic Church was to stand up to Philip and declare the innocence of the Knights. For this the Church is hated?

True, the Church “seized” the Knights’ money. But was this evil? Was not the money collected from pilgrims for the purpose of protecting the Holy Land? Were not the Knights sworn to poverty? If the Knights kept any money for any purpose other than for the Church, it’d be misappropriation of funds.


76 posted on 10/13/2007 7:11:36 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus; Rennes Templar; ottoman

(And let’s not forget that the ex-communicated Philip had just finished having a pope murdered.)


77 posted on 10/13/2007 7:13:17 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

Then why were the Knights Templar conducting the tours to go visit Golgotha? Why did they adopt the cross as their emblem?

Pope Eugenius, upon the Knights pettion for recognition, actually mandated the red cross so the Knights would be easily recognized as protectors of the pilgrims. Both that Pope and the original nine Knights understood the inner meaning of the cross.

“Why did all the churches they helped establish have huge crosses hanging in them.”
They couldn’t throw out he baby with the bathwater. The Cathedral at Chartres (one of their most famous) has many esoteric architectural creations that reflect their understanding of sacred geometry and the alchemy of the soul. Dunping the cross would not have been PC.

“If the pope were slandering them by accusing them of misconduct, wouldn’t he have made public his slander...”

The Knights were popular with he laity. Public slander not good politically.
Pope Clement was not an innocent bystander. He gladly complied with Philip.

“Was not the money collected from pilgrims for the purpose of protecting the Holy Land?”

The Knights wealth was derived from nobles donating land and castles to the order, much of which was used to build magnificent cathedrals whose creations were intended to elevate the masses out of the sack cloth consciousness of the Via Dolorosa, another concocted teaching of the church. They did not owe a dime to the church.


79 posted on 10/13/2007 7:59:13 AM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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