As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.
Posted on 10/14/2007 5:13:14 PM PDT by blam
I agree. Rush pointed this out and asked, “WHY NOW?
i’m aware of all that. frankly since there are Republicans who have signed on to this as well over the years (Dennis Hastert tried to bring it to the floor as well), i think it is more and issue of coming through for the Armenians. it has been tried and tried and tried - and never passed. no guarantee it will be this time. as much as i detest the Dems and their war against this war, i don’t this this is calculated as part of it. by the way, i have a cousin at Centcom and one in Kuwait, both in the Air Force and working hard to win this war.
Tell me again what great “friends” the Turks are...
Like when we really needed them, in launching our first attack on Baghdad, and they refused?
Tell the truth, aren’t they just another bunch of murderous islamic thugs, just a little better at pretending to be “European” until they can gain EU admission?
Their joining the EU is pretty much dead in it's tracks. Now they have no need to pretend they're 'westernized'.
Turkey is not and never will be our friend.
Interesting story Turkish Military in New Power Play
[snip]
However, the military has chafed at EU demands that it withdraw 40,000 troops from EU-member Cyprus and extend minority rights to Kurds.
Since taking office in 2002, Erdogan has spoken out against restrictions on wearing Islamic-style headscarfs in government offices and schools and bolstered religious schools. He tried to criminalize adultery before being forced to back down under intense EU pressure. Some party-run municipalities have taken steps to ban alcohol consumption.
The government has even inserted religious references in school text books _ such as claims that washing before Islamic prayers would increase the number of red blood cells.
"This example shows that it is worthwhile to be cautious against fundamentalism in this country," Sedat Ergin, editor-in-chief of daily Milliyet, told CNN-Turk television on Monday.
President Ahmet Necdet Sezer, a staunch secularist, said Sunday that the government's actions were "rolling back" the gains of the secular republic.
Erdogan's party swept elections in 2002 and is still the leading contender next year, but he may find himself preoccupied with trying to contain the military's anger. He urged the military not to overstep legal boundaries set by the constitution, according to comments published Monday by the state-owned Anatolia news agency.
"The Turkish armed forces must act according to this definition. It cannot step outside of that," Erdogan said Sunday in a speech at Georgetown University.
Buyukanit dismissed criticism that he was threatening democracy.
"Which action of the military is undemocratic?" Buyukanit asked. "I am a soldier, and I am carrying out the duties given to me by laws. As soldiers, we have nothing to do with politics. However, if there are those who are disturbed by our assessments on security and the regime, it is up to them."
[end]
Long before the resolution on the Armenian Genocide resolution.
Turkey will do what is in its interest. If they are getting attacked, they will defend themselves. Unfortunately our congress is full of morons
I would look for this as an opportunity to simply establish Kurdish autonomy in the region.
Here’s my usual post regarding this area.
Maybe my tagline will come true.
We should withdraw from Iraq — through Tehran. Here’s how I think we should “pull out of Iraq.” Add one more front to the scenario below, which would be a classic amphibious beach landing from the south in Iran, and it becomes a “strategic withdrawal” from Iraq. And I think the guy who would pull it off is Duncan Hunter.
How to Stand Up to Iran
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1808220/posts?page=36#36
Posted by Kevmo to TomasUSMC
On News/Activism 03/28/2007 7:11:08 PM PDT · 36 of 36
Split Iraq up and get out
***The bold military move would be to mobilize FROM Iraq into Iran through Kurdistan and then sweep downward, meeting up with the forces that we pull FROM Afghanistan in a 2-pronged offensive. We would be destroying nuke facilities and building concrete fences along geo-political lines, separating warring tribes physically. At the end, we take our boys into Kurdistan, set up a couple of big military bases and stay awhile. We could invite the French, Swiss, Italians, Mozambiqans, Argentinians, Koreans, whoever is willing to be the police forces for the regions that we move through, and if the area gets too hot for these peacekeeper weenies we send in military units. Basically, it would be learning the lesson of Iraq and applying it.
15 rules for understanding the Middle East
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1774248/posts
Rule 8: Civil wars in the Arab world are rarely about ideas — like liberalism vs. communism. They are about which tribe gets to rule. So, yes, Iraq is having a civil war as we once did. But there is no Abe Lincoln in this war. It’s the South vs. the South.
Rule 10: Mideast civil wars end in one of three ways: a) like the U.S. civil war, with one side vanquishing the other; b) like the Cyprus civil war, with a hard partition and a wall dividing the parties; or c) like the Lebanon civil war, with a soft partition under an iron fist (Syria) that keeps everyone in line. Saddam used to be the iron fist in Iraq. Now it is us. If we don’t want to play that role, Iraq’s civil war will end with A or B.
Let’s say my scenario above is what happens. Would that military mobilization qualify as a “withdrawal” from Iraq as well as Afghanistan? Then, when we’re all done and we set up bases in Kurdistan, it wouldn’t really be Iraq, would it? It would be Kurdistan.
.
.
I have posted in the past that I think the key to the strategy in the middle east is to start with an independent Kurdistan. If we engaged Iran in such a manner we might earn back the support of these windvane politicians and wussie voters who don’t mind seeing a quick & victorious fight but hate seeing endless police action battles that don’t secure a country.
I thought it would be cool for us to set up security for the Kurds on their southern border with Iraq, rewarding them for their bravery in defying Saddam Hussein. We put in some military bases there for, say, 20 years as part of the occupation of Iraq in their transition to democracy. We guarantee the autonomy of Iraqi Kurdistan as long as they don’t engage with Turkey. But that doesn’t say anything about engaging with Iranian Kurdistan. Within those 20 years the Kurds could have a secure and independent nation with expanding borders into Iran. After we close down the US bases, Kurdistan is on her own. But at least Kurdistan would be an independent nation with about half its territory carved out of Persia. If Turkey doesn’t relinquish her claim on Turkish Kurdistan after that, it isn’t our problem, it’s 2 of our allies fighting each other, one for independence and the other for regional primacy. I support democratic independence over a bullying arrogant minority.
The kurds are the closest thing we have to friends in that area. They fought against Saddam (got nerve-gassed), they’re fighting against Iran, they squabble with our so-called ally Turkey (who didn’t allow Americans to operate in the north of Iraq this time around).
It’s time for them to have their own country. They deserve it. They carve Kurdistan out of northern Iraq, northern Iran, and try to achieve some kind of autonomy in eastern Turkey. If Turkey gets angry, we let them know that there are consequences to turning your back on your “friend” when they need you. If the Turks want trouble, they can invade the Iraqi or Persian state of Kurdistan and kill americans to make their point. It wouldn’t be a wise move for them, they’d get their backsides handed to them and have eastern Turkey carved out of their country as a result.
If such an act of betrayal to an ally means they get a thorn in their side, I would be happy with it. It’s time for people who call themselves our allies to put up or shut up. The Kurds have been putting up and deserve to be rewarded with an autonomous and sovereign Kurdistan, borne out of the blood of their own patriots.
Should Turkey decide to make trouble with their Kurdish population, we would stay out of it, other than to guarantee sovereignty in the formerly Iranian and Iraqi portions of Kurdistan. When one of our allies wants to fight another of our allies, it’s a messy situation. If Turkey goes “into the war on Iran’s side” then they ain’t really our allies and that’s the end of that.
I agree that it’s hard on troops and their families. We won the war 4 years ago. This aftermath is the nation builders and peacekeeper weenies realizing that they need to understand things like the “15 rules for understanding the Middle East”
This was the strategic error that GWB committed. It was another brilliant military campaign but the followup should have been 4X as big. All those countries that don’t agree with sending troups to fight a war should have been willing to send in policemen and nurses to set up infrastructure and repair the country.
What do you think we should do with Iraq?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1752311/posts
Posted by Kevmo to Blue Scourge
On News/Activism 12/12/2006 9:17:33 AM PST · 23 of 105
My original contention was that we should have approached the reluctant “allies” like the French to send in Police forces for the occupation after battle, since they were so unwilling to engage in the fighting. It was easy to see that we’d need as many folks in police and nurse’s uniforms as we would in US Army unitorms in order to establish a democracy in the middle east. But, since we didn’t follow that line of approach, we now have a civil war on our hands. If we were to set our sights again on the police/nurse approach, we might still be able to pull this one off. I think we won the war in Iraq; we just haven’t won the peace.
I also think we should simply divide the country. The Kurds deserve their own country, they’ve proven to be good allies. We could work with them to carve out a section of Iraq, set their sights on carving some territory out of Iran, and then when they’re done with that, we can help “negotiate” with our other “allies”, the Turks, to secure Kurdish autonomy in what presently eastern Turkey.
That leaves the Sunnis and Shiites to divide up what’s left. We would occupy the areas between the two warring factions. Also, the UN/US should occupy the oil-producing regions and parcel out the revenue according to whatever plan they come up with. That gives all the sides something to argue about rather than shooting at us.
That leaves Damascus for round II. The whole deal could be circumvented by Syria if they simply allow real inspections of the WOMD sites. And when I say “real”, I mean real — the inspectors would have a small armor division that they could call on whenever they get held up by some local yocal who didn’t get this month’s bribe. Hussein was an idiot to dismantle all of his WOMDs and then not let the inspectors in. If he had done so, he’d still be in power, pulling Bush’s chain.
We had better help the Kurds.
If you’d like to address a specific issue, I’ll discuss it with you.
Yeah Turkey, suck it up, accept your losses and forget about it. That is what our democrats and press would say about our military.
i agree - this raising up of Turkey as the perfect ally is ridiculous. they do allow NATO bases but that’s because they want into the EU. how about reading about the trial of the son of recently assassinated Hrant Dink, Armenian journalist - among others, for not being “Turkish” enough. they are getting more and more repressive and people are not paying attention.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought the same thing. And yes, they sure do.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
D1
This is at least sedition, if not treason. When will the leaks and interference (such as flying to terror countries warning of attacks - Rockefeller, Pelosi with her dumb ass, non thought out actions, as well as the idiots on the hill that obviously have no clue of this war or the geopolitical situation... i’m ashamed), be prosecuted? When will the DOJ and the president act? If the Times, WaPo, and leaking senators, reps and military had been taken to court (win or lose), from the beginning... most of the job would have been done in these countries. They once again, have sentenced more of our troops, Kurds and Iraqis to death.
We’re not dealing with human beings... these are principalities and powers.
She approves of the legislation, so she gave her approval to start the process to bring it to the full House for a vote. She’s a political lightweight that would do anything to destroy our efforts on the ground in Iraq. No matter how they do it, if they cause a defeat in this war, it won’t matter why, all that will matter is that she can say that ‘all wars are futile’. That’s all Pelosi cares about. Who gets killed as she plays these games doesn’t matter to her at all.
As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.
Yep, and when was that? Can you tell me a good reason why she would bring it now? Besides not having votes to stop the war?
With this and Syria, her damn earmarks slid in on top of stalled troop funding (where everyone decided to go BBQ instead, yet brought in bunks for illegals/weekend sleepover), she should be in jail or swinging.
i hope turkey does wipe out the pkk kurd terrorists and im sure the kurds of the kurdistan regional government do too.
Turkey has been holding off what it sees as a necessary operation due to pressure from the U.S. With the Democrats’ gratuitous resolution it has apparently occurred to the Turks to question just why it is that they are accepting PPK raids into Turkey at the behest of the U.S. when the U.S. slaps them so. The whole Kurdish showplace of freedom and orderly development in Iraqi Kurdistan has been jeopardized just because Pelosi and the Left felt it necessary to punish Turkey for the unforgivable sin of being an ally of the United States.
National Security Expert Says "No" to Islamist Turkey in EU
The Washington Times Commentary Article Highlights Why Europe
Should Not Accept Turkey Into The EU
WASHINGTON, DC – The American Hellenic Institute (AHI) brings to your attention a commentary article in The Washington Times entitled, “‘No’ to Islamist Turkey” by Frank Gaffney, Jr., former Defense Department official who is president of the Center for Security Policy and a columnist for the Washington Times. This article highlights reasons why Europe should not accept Turkey’s bid into the EU.
The text of the article follows:
'NO' TO ISLAMIST TURKEY
By Frank J. Gaffney Jr.
----------------------------------------------------------- On Oct. 3, representatives of the European Union and the Turkish government of Islamist Recep Erdogan will meet to determine if Muslim Turkey will be allowed to seek full membership in the EU. It will be best for Turkey, to say nothing of Europe and the West more generally, if the EU answer under present circumstances is: "Thanks, but no thanks."
The reason Europe should politely, but firmly, reject Turkey's bid should be clear: Prime Minister Erdogan is systematically turning his country from a Muslim secular democracy into an Islamofascist state governed by an ideology anathema to European values and freedoms.
Evidence of such an ominous transformation is not hard to find.
Turkey is awash with billions of dollars in what is known as "green money," apparently emanating from funds Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf states withdrew from the United States after September 11, 2001. U.S. policymakers are concerned this unaccountable cash is laundered in Turkey, then used to finance businesses and generate new revenue streams for Islamofascist terrorism. At the very least, everything else on Mr. Erdogan's Islamist agenda is lubricated by these resources.
Turkey's traditionally secular educational system is being steadily supplanted by madrassa-style "imam hatip" schools and other institutions where students are taught only the Koran and its interpretation according to the Islamofascists. The prime minister is himself an imam hatip school graduate and has championed lowering the age at which children can be subjected to their form of radical religious indoctrination from 12 years old to 4. And in 2005, experts expect 1,215,000 Turkish students to graduate from such schools.
Products of such an education are ill-equipped to do much besides carrying out the Islamist program of Mr. Erdogan's AKP Party. Tens of thousands are being given government jobs: Experienced, secular bureaucrats are replaced with ideologically reliable theo-apparatchiks; 4,000 others pack secular courts, transforming them into instruments of Shari'a religious law.
As elsewhere, religious intolerance is a hallmark of Mr.Erdogan's creeping Islamofascist putsch in Turkey. Roughly a third of the Turkish population is a minority known as Alevis. They observe a strain of Islam that retains some of the traditions of Turkey's ancient religions. Islamist Sunnis like Mr. Erdogan and his Saudi Wahhabi sponsors regard the Alevis as "apostates" and "hypocrites" and subject them to increasing discrimination and intimidation. Other minorities, notably Turkey's Jews, know they are likely next in line for such treatment ? a far cry from the tolerance of the Ottoman era.
In the name of internationally mandated "reform" of Turkey's banking system, the government is seizing assets and operations of banks run by businessmen associated with the political opposition. It has gone so far as to defy successive rulings by Turkey's supreme court disallowing one such expropriation. The AKP-dominated parliament has enacted legislation that allows even distant relatives of the owners to be prosecuted for alleged wrongdoing. Among the beneficiaries of such shakedowns have been so-called "Islamic banks" tied to Saudi Arabia, some of whose senior officers now hold top jobs in the Erdogan government.
Grabbing assets -- or threatening to do so -- has allowed the government effectively to take control of the Turkish media, as well. Consolidation of the industry in hands friendly to (or at least cowed by) the Islamists and self-censorship of reporters, lest they depart from the party line, have essentially denied prominent outlets to any contrary views. The risks of deviating is clear from the recently announced prosecution of Turkey's most acclaimed novelist, Orhan Parmuk, for "denigrating Turks and Turkey" by affirming in a Swiss publication allegations of past Turkish genocidal attacks on Kurds and Armenians.
Among the consequences of Mr. Erdogan's domination of the press has been an inflaming of Turkish public opinion against President Bush in particular and the United States more generally. Today, a novel describing a war between America and Turkey leading to the nuclear destruction of Washington is a runaway best-seller, even in the Turkish military.
This data point perhaps indicates the Islamists' progress toward also transforming the traditional guarantors of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's legacy of a secular, pro-Western Muslim state: Turkey's armed forces. Matters have been worsened by Mr. Erdogan's skillful manipulation of popular interest in the European bid to keep the military from serving as a control rod in Turkish politics.
At the very least, over time, the cumulative effect of having the conscript-based Turkish army obliged to fill its ranks with products of an increasingly Islamist-dominated educational system cannot be positive for either the Europeans or the Free World beyond. Especially as Mr. Erdogan seeks to put into effect what has been dubbed a "zero-problem" policy toward neighboring Iran and Syria, the military's historical check on the gravitational pull toward Islamofascism is likely to recede.
Consequently, the EU's representatives should not only put on ice any invitation to Turkey to join the European Union next week. They should make it clear the reason is Mr. Erdogan's Islamist takeover: The prime minister is making Turkey ineligible for membership on the grounds that the AKP program will inevitably ruin his nation's economy, radicalize its society and eliminate Ankara's ability to play Turkey's past, constructive role in the geographic "cockpit of history."
It is to be hoped this meeting will serve one other purpose, as well: It should compel the Europeans to begin to address their own burgeoning problem with Islamofascism. Both Europe, Turkey and, for that matter, the rest of the world, need to find ways to empower moderate Muslims who oppose Islamists like Turkey's Erdogan. Oct. 3 would be a good time to start. {end}
They're already friends with iran and syria. This won't push them toward them, now they just won't have to hide it anymore.
If you can read this article and not see that they have never been our friend, or just biding their time pretending to be civilized to join the EU, then you never will. Turkey's true islamic face will now come to the foreground.
Schools turning into madrases.
Is syria and iran our friend fellow FReepers?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.