However, the problem arises if, say, thousands of Aborigines migrate to Finland. They don’t do very well on tests to get into college or to get high paying jobs. The cry then goes up to give them quotas because it’s unthinkable to suggest that they might just not be as adept at physics, chemistry, business management, or accounting as Finns.
To be honest with you, such threads make me ‘happy.’ Why? Well, they enable me to be exposed to a wide variety of opinions that range from the evidently veritable to the clearly asinine (and all ranges in between). Articles on intelligence (particularly racial stratification on the same) draw more people (and types of people) out than virtually any article that doesn’t have to do with Slick Willie’s infidelity, dictators being found in spider-holes, or a picture of Ted Kennedy’s fat behind.
To make things even better you said that he was talking about Africa’s population. The sheer hilarity of that statement stems from the fact that ‘Africa’s population’ is the MOST genetically diverse grouping of people on the planet. Thus the sheer grouping of all those people into one homogenous block is quite interesting (although not surprising ….i cannot count the number of times that people have asked me about Africa as if it is one single country, even when the differences in sub-regions can be prodigious).
Take me for instance – I was born and raised (up to the age of 20) in Africa. I am comprised of 4 tribes – 3 are Kenyan (Kikuyu, Ndorobo and Maasai) and one is Ehtiopian (Amhara). Of those tribes, 2 are Bantu, 1 is Nilote, and the other is Cushite. In essence, the major regional groupings in Africa (analogous to being part white, part Asian, and part Aborigine). Looking at the Bantu tribes by themselves, there is so much genetic variety that one study showed that a particularly tribe had closer genetic leanings to Scots than to another Bantu tribe.
When it comes to intellect I have to say that I do not consider myself lacking. My IQ is at Mensa level (although I consider IQ tests pure folly, one of the truly obstreperous applications of ‘science’ in the world ….oh, and don’t get me started on its twin …the so called ‘lie-detecting’ polygraph tests that are so easy to pass it is a joke – I would know). I have achieved a lot in my life, even at my age. Consequently I always find it humorous when I read studies stating that I should be dumber than I am because of some test.
The next thing I am always told is that I am an outlier (one kid actually told me that in my freshman year at college ….i was somewhat different). Funny thing is that in Kenya, where I am from, I had to struggle a bit just to keep up because the schools I went to were full of people like me.
Oh, and on Africa. Guess which group in the US is amongst the most successful immigrant groups. Hmmm ….yep, AFRICAN immigrants. They come in, do ‘small’ jobs to get things moving (e.g. nursing homes, etc), and then once they get their $h!t together they move to bigger better things. One of my personal friends (also from Africa) bought the nursing home he was working in in Oklahoma City after pooling money from the other Africans working there.
The next thing I here is that the ones who go Stateside are the ‘best’ …the cream of the crop and all that jazz. Truth is (at least for Kenya), they are ‘merely’ the lucky ones. The nation (I can only speak for Kenya …..unlike some on this thread I do not claim to know all of Africa, just enough to know that the continent is not one homogenous block of like-minded gerbils) has a whole lot of people who have done quite well in the nation, and anyone who can make it big in Kenya would easily do better in the US (again, I would know ….there is little competition, a lot of opportunity, and a lot of corporations willing to hire hardworking intelligent people who look like African-Americans and thus kill two birds with one stone).
Now, Africa does have some very dumb people (in all the countries), as does the rest of the world. One of the major differences though is that in Africa many of the leaders happen to be VERY dumb as well, which makes a huge difference. When nations have leaders that have the intellect of a beetroot then you have significant problems that percolate downward, and the problem with Africa is that it will take at least another half-generation for these leaders to be replaced (and it is happening, which is good news …..and it has already happened when it comes to corporate leadership, which is why a number of the African bourses and economies are doing so well, and why a lot of institutional investor attention is shifting to Africa …it will just take extra time for the same to happen in political leadership. But the fact that it happened in the corporate/economic side of things fosters hope that things should also happen in the political arena). The rest of the world (particularly the West) has been blessed with strong corporate and political leadership (if you think the Democrats are bad then try replacing Nancy Pelosi with Robert Mugabe and see what happens ….some of the ‘bad’ political leadership in the West would seem like veritable boons to some African nations).
Anyways, on intellect. Simply put, there are more differences between Africans in one country than amongst your typical American and the typical Japanese. Africa is not one homogenous block. There are many Africans who are doing quite well and would thrive in the US (easily ….so easily that in the US I knew a bunch of racist Africans who looked down on people – any race – who were struggling yet they were surrounded by so much opportunity).
Finally on intellect. Intelligence, and its application, is dependent on the value one puts on it. The reason why Asians are said to do well is primarily due to nurture ….a lot of emphasis is put on education and performance by the Asian community, and thus that will translate to greater educational exposure.
A simple experiment can confirm this ….go to a diverse community (say a typical LA or New York school district) and find a high school. Then go to the library and see who is studying. Then go to the basketball court and see who is playing. Then have a look at the SAT results …..I’d bet you good money that the results will be a reflection of the dispersion you observed between those studying in the library and those playing basketball at the courts.
That is something people like Bill Cosby have been talking about for quite some time, and it is something that CLEARLY affects intelligence and scores. Yet people would rather rank all of Africa as ‘one country,’ even when Africans in the US outperform African Americans, Whites and American-Asians (as opposed to immigrant Asians from Asia and India, who the Africans tie with).
If only I could repeat some of the things those African friends of mine used to say, but I’d probably get banned …
Needless to say, they would (as I do) find this article rather humorous. Quite so indeed.
Conclusion: Lack of intelligence is largely self-imposed through nurture/culture. This goes back to what Bill Cosby has been saying, and what i rather crudely alluded to in my Library vs Basketball analogy. Again, look at the people studying in the lib and the people throwing hoops on the court. Then check their SAT scores. And as for 'Africans' ....go to your local university and check what most of the Africans are doing (if they are not studying they are working and saving).
One of the major differences though is that in Africa many of the leaders happen to be VERY dumb as well, which makes a huge difference.
I know it is a generalized belief, but your statement above is probably more true of most nations than the one about intellegence that got this thread started.
Conclusion: Lack of intelligence is largely self-imposed through nurture/culture. This goes back to what Bill Cosby has been saying, and what i rather crudely alluded to in my Library vs Basketball analogy. Again, look at the people studying in the lib and the people throwing hoops on the court. Then check their SAT scores. And as for ‘Africans’ ....go to your local university and check what most of the Africans are doing (if they are not studying they are working and saving).
If I recall in one of Sowell’s books he talks about the extremely low IQs of Irish and Italians when they were measured during WWI inductions.
Over the past 80 years those average IQs increased dramaticlly due to fine Catholic school educations in the mid centurey where millions of poverty sticken immigrants were given the finest of educations available at the time for low prices. The Irish and the Italians now outearn WASPS and are only superceded by Asians and Jews.
I think there are both genetic and environmental factors that influence both intelligence and achievement, that is to say the use of the intelligence one has.
Clearly, attitudes, application and diligence, as well as opportunity, greatly affect achievement and possibly even IQ. There is no question that someone with a relatively low IQ who has an outstanding work ethic and applies him or herself diligently can outstrip a person with a relatively higher IQ who is a lazy sot.
To the extent Cosby (and Juan Williams for that matter) preaches blacks in the US have allowed themselves to perpetuate a culture that does not even attempt to make full use of their intellectual capabilities (whatever they may be), he is absolutely right.
To suggest that it follows logically that with application scores will become equal across groups is inaccurate.
Your points about the success of blacks of immediate African (and West Indian) origin in the US does not prove anything - they are self-selected (by coming here) and undoubtedly are of higher intelligence and diligence than the average populations in their countries of origin.
If you read my posts, you will see I do not suggest anywhere that individuals should be judged by group norms. On the other hand, to deny the empirical evidence because it is uncomfortable strikes me as a profound mistake that makes finding real solutions impossible - because it's unclear even what the solutions might and ought to be, and whether the cost of attempting particular solutions (in money and the effects on people) are socially accpetable.
Work ethic is a component of culture, not intelligence.
I am weary of black Americans who have had slave ancestors in this country trying to beat more recently-emigrated whites over the head with it. Many who do so are professional people with no material complaints whatsoever, whereas the whites taking abuse may be, like some of my ancestors, descendants of Irish orphans whose parents were pushed off their land and starved by the English, only to come here and be used as laborers, domestics or soldiers. Life is hard, and the race is to the swift, regardless of skin color.
This is a great country for people who have ideas and energy and willingness to work for what they get. All others, get behind me.
Okay, genius, should government policy be geared towards the intellectual elites, the retards or an average of the whole population?