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City Hikes Boy Scouts' Rent by $199,999 over Gay Ban (Philadelphia)
Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | 10/18/2007 | Joseph A. Slobodzian

Posted on 10/18/2007 9:41:25 AM PDT by Pyro7480

The Boy Scouts of America's refusal to bend its rules to permit gay scouts will cost the organization's local chapter $200,000 a year if it wishes to keep its headquarters in a city-owned building on Logan Square.

Representatives of the Boy Scouts of America's Cradle of Liberty Council were notified that to remain in their 79-year-old landmark headquarters, they needed to pay the city a "fair market" rent, Fairmount Park Commission president Robert N.C. Nix said yesterday. Currently, the rent is $1 a year....

(Excerpt) Read more at philly.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: ban; boyscouts; bsa; childmolesters; discrimination; gaystapotactics; homofascism; homosexualagenda; homosexuals; jerks; lawsuit; moralabsolutes; philadelphia; politicalcorrectness; scouting; scouts; stalinism
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To: All

Does everyone realize that they have a counter argument that the city is violating the 1st amendment by seeking to establish a association requirment?

The issue is what has the city done with like situations?

Are other organizations given similar token rents for use of public lands? Then they have a claim.

IF ALL organizations get the same market value rents then ouch. IF only some get the market rent because the don’t meet the government religion requirement then it is an issue.


281 posted on 10/18/2007 11:51:48 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Albion Wilde
"It's just a matter of increments before the tax exemptions for churches will be assailed because of "discrimination."

That would be a violation of the constitution of the USA. The Government can't interfere with the church. Church property is sovereign in a sense.

282 posted on 10/18/2007 11:52:16 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: trumandogz

“And the Boy Scouts have violated their lease.
“Now, perhaps you could invent a time machine and stop the law that states that the city could not rent to an organization the discriminates.”

Have you seen a copy of the lease? I have been attempting without success to find the 1928 ordinance or the original lease to see exactly what it says. From what I understand, the agreement was to be in perpetuity. Whatever it says, I sincerely doubt there is any reference to discrimination in a 1928 document. Now if the agreement made any reference to the Cradle of Liberty Council having to be in compliance with any future ordinances, the city may have a case. But lacking that, it seems to be the city that has changed the terms of the agreement, thereby violating the lease.


283 posted on 10/18/2007 11:54:00 AM PDT by rwa265
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To: Nathan Zachary
If the lease has expired, yes the can. I didn't see that it was in the article however.

Judging from the story there was no lease, just a unwritten agreement that the city would rent the Scouts the land for a buck. Well, as any lawyer will tell you unwritten agreements are not worth the paper they're printed on. So now both parties are over a barrel. As the story points out, the city cannot legally continue renting to an organization that discriminates. And the Boy Scouts have no plans to changing their membership and leadership standards simply to satisfy the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. So either the Scouts pay fair market value or they move. There doesn't seem to be any legal alternative as the law is currently written.

284 posted on 10/18/2007 11:55:51 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Captain Rhino

All demolition requires permits, there are probably historic site restrictions on it (considering its prominence and age) such that even the city would be prevented from razing it.

Again, more assumptions due to lack of information here.


285 posted on 10/18/2007 11:56:18 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
I would love to see the contract between them.

Reading the story, it sounds like there was no contract. Merely an 'agreement'. That left the Scouts wide open for something like this to happen. Hopefully their other chapters are taking steps to prevent something like this from happening elsewhere.

286 posted on 10/18/2007 12:00:02 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: trumandogz
"City officials have said they could not legally rent taxpayer-owned property for a dollar a year to a private organization that discriminates."

Just because they say it, doesn't mean that is so. In fact the do it all the time. For example, Womens only health clubs are discriminatory, and they rent city property. This is clearly, fags vendetta against the boy scouts. Nothing more.

287 posted on 10/18/2007 12:03:24 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: trumandogz
What other groups receive free rent from the city?

The Boy Scouts built the property they are renting for the city in 1928 with the agreement that it could rent the property for $1.

The only REASON to renege on that agreement is bigotry by the city of Philadelphia toward the BSA's religious views.

288 posted on 10/18/2007 12:04:33 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: Non-Sequitur
"The city has to abide by the anti-discrimination laws in place."

To me, these anti-discrimination laws always founder on a massive self-contradiction. To revoke the scouts lease because of their policy on gays is itself a form of discrimination.

People say, "No, we're just discriminating against discriminators," but that's a false argument. The scouts discriminate against gay scoutmasters because they think homosexuality is wrong and that it threatens the well-being of scouts. (By the way, it didn't get much publicity, but the scouts recently released national statistics that showed that dozens of gay scoutmasters have indeed violated hundreds of scouts, and - even with their safeguards - it is a huge problem, legally and financially.)

The city discriminates against the scouts because they think discrimination is a sin. So the city is really saying, "Discrimination is justified only to counter certain sins, and we will decide what those sins are."
289 posted on 10/18/2007 12:06:24 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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To: USMCPOP
“Romulo L. Diaz Jr., the first openly gay appointee for Philadelphia city solicitor, never thought about hiding his sexual orientation when his appointment was announced last week. “I know who I am, and I’m confident about who I am, which includes my sexual orientation,” Diaz told PGN. “And, frankly, I don’t want to be a member of any club that doesn’t accept who I am.”

Rolumo L. Diaz Jr.

290 posted on 10/18/2007 12:08:01 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: Non-Sequitur

The lease was supposed to be “in perpetuity.”

That’s a long time.


291 posted on 10/18/2007 12:09:19 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: LADY J
The Scouts could still meet someplace else while they litigate this building/land problem.

The Scout meetings are held in many other locations around the neighborhoods, so families can walk to meetings. This building houses the administrative work for the entire region, and PA is a huge state.

292 posted on 10/18/2007 12:11:55 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: Non-Sequitur

plus it was made in a time where no law was being violated.

it has to stand because of that. Laws change, but usually they aren’t retroactive.


293 posted on 10/18/2007 12:12:20 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: trumandogz

All: don’t bother trumandogz with the facts; his mind is made up.


294 posted on 10/18/2007 12:16:57 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: BamaGirl

Exactly. We should stand tall and proud for the things we believe in especially in the face of adversity which we are bombarded with daily. It’s all a game of the left. Just keep bombarding us until we give into their demands.

No way.


295 posted on 10/18/2007 12:17:36 PM PDT by freekitty ((May the eagles long fly our beautiful and free American sky.))
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To: Nathan Zachary
The lease was supposed to be “in perpetuity.”

Oh I'm sure that the Boy Scouts assumed that was true but as it turns out there was no lease and no contract. They're at the mercy of the city and state.

Surely there has to be a compromise. The building is worthless without the city lot it's built on. The lot is worthless to the city so long as the historical building sits on it. Sell the lot to the Scouts for a token amount and that should settle everything.

296 posted on 10/18/2007 12:18:50 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: trumandogz

It stops with you. Who says you have to do tit for tat. Stand proud and tall for what you believe in. Dig your heels in. What they do is not the point. What we do is.


297 posted on 10/18/2007 12:19:31 PM PDT by freekitty ((May the eagles long fly our beautiful and free American sky.))
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To: TommyDale
I’m quite aware of that, my own church does. Why would the City of Philadelphia (Brotherly Love?) be any different.

Because this building is not just a meeting place for a Den or Pack. It is a large building to house the entire administrative apparatus of the region. The scale of the space needed and the time required for regular employees to work 8-to-5 is beyond what an individual church could donate.

298 posted on 10/18/2007 12:19:53 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Yeah, hopefully.


299 posted on 10/18/2007 12:22:14 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: freekitty

BUMP


300 posted on 10/18/2007 12:23:53 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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