Skip to comments.Black People "less intelligent" Scientist Claims
Posted on 10/19/2007 1:52:48 AM PDT by T.L.Sink
One of the most respected scientists is embroiled in an extraordinary row after claiming that black people are less intelligent than white people. James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in discovering the structure of DNA, has provoked outrage with his comments. The 79 year old geneticist said he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas the the testing says not really."
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
He may be another Newton, but it’s my guess he’s going to wish he was a brilliant diplomat instead by the time this is all over.
next thing you know, even Nobel Peace Prize winners will express wacky views. oh wait...
There are a couple of stories linked on Druge where he is apologizing for the comments.
Pheh, he’s an atheist if IIRC. I assume he’s an evolutionist as well. It’s not really surprising (or new) when evolutionists reach this conclusion. Nothing new here, just a logical conclusion if you’re starting from the supposition that man evolved from a lesser being and is still evolving (whether neo-darwinist or punctuated equilibrium, etc. it doesn’t matter)—he’s just being more forthright than your average macro-evolutionist.
Now if you start with the supposition that God created man in His own image, it’s different.
Nobel Prize or not Watson is toast.
This is at least the third article posted here about this guy and his claims. Of course, all the Bell Curve people are all over the other threads in full force calling the rest of us “politically correct” etc. Personally, I think his comments reflect negatively on the Nobel Prize, and I couldn’t be happier, considering some of the other recipients.
What’s odd is that I have seen numerous studies published stating that Asians were more intelligent than Caucasians, but never seen an uproar about that.
Why is that?? Someone help me out here!
If an influx of Asians were suddenly taking many jobs away from Caucasians, then there would be an uproar. Me - I don't buy that claim about Asian intellectual superiority over Caucasians, either.
Africa’s problems are moral, not intellectual. It doesn’t take a genius, or even an above average IQ, to know that rule of law, low taxes, security of property, and so on make for a successful polity.
I wonder what the gentleman thinks about North Korea.
If you embrace evolution as settled science it follows that races have a different genetic make up based on the evolutionary pressure from the environment they lived in. Thus their intelect would be “different” rather than the judgemental “smarter” or, “stupider”. This would apply to all characteristics. Variablility among individuals is obivious and undeniable. Variability among genetically isolated populations is required for evolution to work. Humans and human races are subject to the same forces as the rest of the species.
If you don’t accept this perhaps evolution should be reexamined....
Africa’s moral problems have indeed lead to a situation whereby, what we consider “intelligence” is, in the most general sense, diminished across populations.
I don’t think the factual matter of the depreciated intelligence of the citizens of third world countries across the world is so arguable.
I think this argument simply falls afoul of political correctness because the argument has been associated with skin color rather than the nature of third world nations and the cultures therein.
I feel, without evidence, that the measures of intelligence within the US today, among these same demographics, would not be dissimilar (they are) if assimilation were the by-word of today instead of “diversity”.
The important part to keep in mind is that these differences exist and political policies should be impacted by those differences.
For example: When seeking to influence a people in a foreign country favorably toward the US, how we seek to influence them depends greatly upon the intelligence of those people.
Actually, you have the cause and effect backwards. Intelligent people that can think logically tend to be conservative because their principles are based on logic and fundamentals. Less intelligent people tend to be liberals because they base their beliefs on "feelings" and don't think through and analyze their actions/policy beliefs.
Do you also disavow the claim that blacks are athletically superior to Caucasians or do you believe your lying eyes?
Years ago, I worked in a group home for retarded adults. They were mostly from rural areas of western Pennsylvania, and all of them were white. We had two in the group who were thought to have normal intelligence - but functioned and tested at a retarded level because of severe cultural deprivation.
They had been brought up on welfare in little backwoods trailers where everybody was their own aunt, uncle or cousin. Their diet consisted of boiled macaroni, an occasional squirrel, and soda and potato chips. They had almost no language skills because nobody ever talked to anybody else and their language had been so non-standard for generations that they were practically unintelligible anyway. They had no interaction with the outside world, except for an occasional visit from the social worker to certify them for welfare, until they got to the mandatory age for public school (and sometimes not even then, because the parents simply refused to send them).
A lot of Africans are in this situation. Their traditional culture has broken down and has been replaced by a highly politicized chaos that has no intellectual structure that could shape or train them to interact with the world around them in anything but the most instinctive and “primitive” way. Intelligence in its various degrees may be innate, but it is developed by living in a world that offers people fixed realities and concepts for building a theoretical structure that enables them to understand the world and act rationally in it (which also involves moral action). Therefore, their innate intelligence is simply never going to be developed until they have the structure that enables it to develop.
I have met some extremely intelligent African Christians, many of whom grew up in the same poverty as anybody else but were taken and sent to Catholic boarding schools when very young and emerged in no way inferior to their white counterparts.
We need more missionary activities in Africa. (Not to mention in rural Pennsylvania!) It is the structure and foundation of society that enables its people to be “intelligent.” While there will always be natural, individual differences within this, the basic level of civilized man will be pretty much the same. However, the very point of “cultural deprivation” is that there is no culture to nourish the mind, and this results in the permanent stunting of intellectual growth. Africa as a whole is in a state of cultural deprivation, and its people reflect this; but it’s a curable situation, if anybody cares to do so.
Well said! The gist of what he is saying may or may not be so, but it is out of context without explanation in that intelligence is not one absolute score. Plus such a statement tends to bias the entire body implying that the dumbest member of one race is smarter than the smartest person of the target race. Better that he would say nothing. Darwin already said what he said with consequences of slavery for years!
I am not in a position to opine on the accuracy of the intelligence comparisons. However, I do not agree that it’s particularly relevant. The cultural and moral factors that plague Africa are not unique to any racial group.
Our own “intellectual” class is proof that simple intelligence does not correlate with moral excellence, economic utility, or practical comprehension. If we can’t convince the brightest minds (by IQ measure) in the U.S. and Western Europe that Marxism is a recipe for disaster, why would we say that lower intelligence explains Africans’ falling for it?
I think Alan Keyes, Walter Williams, Clarence Thomas, et al belie Watson’s claim.
I wish I had half the brains of Keyes.
He should be ashamed of himself.
That peace prize seem to be for idiots and terrorist these days.
Agreed. Alan Keyes is the smartest individual I’ve ever known. And I’ve known a lot of very intelligent people.
Of course, his raw, native ability has been massively built upon by his fierce devotion to the hard lifetime task of completely internalizing the moral and historic truths that underlie our free republic and our Judeo-Christian civilization.
In other words, he has not buried his talents in the ground. He’s invested them wisely and procured an impressive return on investment for the One Who gave them to him in the first place.
He broke the biggest taboo of them all!
I would think that Alan Keyes, and Thomas Sowell , and
others I believe more intelligent than I would find this
amusing. But I ‘ve heard one radio talk jock insist the
“Spin” is making this seem other than what was said—a
credible observation as I’ve seen it whenever the gay rights groups read professional journals seeking to
justify their abominable lifestyle choices.
Those were Nobel Prizes that were not politically motivated.
Well, unfortunately for your pollyannish notions, all of the attempts to measure human intelligence show the same general trend. To use precise language, mongloids are brighter than caucasoids, who are brighter than negroids.
That's what the hardest data we have show--that you choose not to believe it is your problem.
Uhh...isn't that exactly what's happening? I guess we can blame Watson for the H-1B program.
There is an awful lot of white kids who can’t seem to put their belt on and always get their hat on sideways. They look dumber than crap to me.....I’m just saying
How does a test that compares a group of different shapes and asks one to make logical inferences from those patterns show "linguistic and cultural bias"????
Such tests show the same "racial" differences as those which use regular language.
Caucasians are evil and must be stopped. If we must ignore facts to do so, so be it.
I seriously doubt that James Watson, at the age of 79, is quaking in his boots. I am 71 and pretty damned well say what’s on my mind and plan to continue doing so. My philosophy, at this juncture in my life is, “If you don’t like to hear what I think, go find yourself a liberal with a vacuum gauge embedded in his brow (the better to measure the depth of his thoughts, you understand).
“How does a test that compares a group of different shapes and asks one to make logical inferences from those patterns show “linguistic and cultural bias”????
1. Familiarity with the geometric concepts involved.
2.motivation to try
3.nutritional status of the population taking the test
4. genera early childhood stimulation
An excellent summary. Thank you for posting it.
I thought of H1Bs as I was posting. Yes, but they're just replacing IT people, and IT people do scream about it. Notice the points the IT people make: H1B has nothing to do with a group of people being more intelligent. It has to do with a group of people willing to work for lower pay.
Define the term "athletically superior".
And don't point to the professional athletes you see on TV. They are a small portion of a large population.
The key word there is attempts.
All he has to do for clarification is use Zimbabwe as an example. That will shut everybody up.
I'm reminded of the saying that, when you're holding a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. I guess when you discovered the mechanism of heredity, you're inclined to imagine that every situation is a matter of inherited characteristics.
Right - the Nobel Peace Prize has become a joke but the prizes for the sciences are a completely different kind of cat - you can’t be a PC faker in areas like genetics and physics.
LOL Well, I expect to continue voicing my opinion also, but this guy isn’t going to want his public rep trashed. He’s used to respect being the only emotion shown him.
So you believe that it is impossible to come up with a method to measure human intelligence??
Sorry, dude, but science doesn't work that way. There are multiple different approaches to making that measurement, and they are in reasonable agreement with one another, specifically that in the sort of intelligence that requires logical reasoning from data (i.e. science itself), Ashkenazi Jews are best, Asians next, Caucasians next, and Negroids after that. And in a number of those tests, "cultural and linguistic bias" is impossible---because those are based on geometric shapes.
Those are facts, not to be denied, by you or any other politcally correct type. Until you folks get into the real world, you'll never make progress (see the motto on my home page). To put it succinctly---Mother Nature doesn't care about your political correctness.
First of all, I’m not a “dude”.
Secondly, I never said that it was impossible to measure human intelligence. The tests to date do not prove that intelligence is a genetically inherent trait according to “race”. There are too many environmental factors at play. An accurate method of measurement hasn’t been invented, if one ever can be.
Thirdly, most traditional IQ tests are not based on geometric shapes. Even if they were, they’d only show that some people perform better with spatial relationships.
And, finally, I DO live in the Real World, and I have made progress.
Dude, dudette, transgendered.....who cares.
"The tests to date do not prove that intelligence is a genetically inherent trait according to race. There are too many environmental factors at play. An accurate method of measurement hasnt been invented, if one ever can be."
That might even be true, but the reality is that the order of performance is as I stated, FOR WHATEVER REASON. And, given the self-destructive direction that "black culture" is heading, I suspect that the results in coming years will be even worse.
But anyone who observes any kind of breeding, be it animal or human, knows that there is a LARGE inheritable portion of intelligence. Anybody who declares differently is a clueless idiot.
The article and the title are not correct. Watson was talking about Africans, not Blacks, not African-Americans, not African-English. Whoever wrote the article is clearly a moron on his best day.
My recollection is that that are studies of “mongoloids” in Hawaii that indicate the small IQ advantage deteriorates beginning with the first generation born here. No IQ difference among groups as far as I am aware is all that large in relation to the part of IQ that seems not to be due to heredity. As someone who is part of the “Asian” community because of my wife, my observation is that any advantage in intellectual performance Asians may have in general disappears rather rapidly due to the influence of American culture and public schools. I know a lot of immigrant Asian parents who can’t figure out what is going wrong with their children. A few are figuring out that the major part of the problem, but not all of it, is coming home from the public schools.
I know some folks who were going to school at the Indiana University in Indiana Pa (western Pa). One year they thought they would make some extra cash by delivering phone books to the areas around Indiana...they were shocked at the conditions. Have you ever seen the “X-files” episode where the agents discover a family of incestuous cannibals? It took place in Home,Pa. — in the same area where they were delivering phone books...spooky music cue...
Name-calling is what people who don’t have a valid argument do. That’s a typical liberal tactic. You don’t see me calling you a “racist”, do you? Yet, you’ll toss around insults like “clueless idiot”. Liberals also tend to group people according to race and make sweeping generalizations about individuals based on their assigned groups.
I’ve lived around a great number of different people from many various backgrounds. I also spend 24 hours/day 7 days/week raising my own children. I have read about children who are supposedly genius, and not one of them has impressed me yet. That’s because I have one child who would’ve blown each and every one of them away at a young age. I could sit here bragging and boasting that his IQ was inherited. But, because I spend so much time with my children, I know that qualities like intelligence are largely the result of circumstances and environment, not genetics, whatever anyone would like to believe.