Posted on 10/22/2007 11:29:32 AM PDT by Smogger
You are right, FWIW. Neither goats (?!?) nor anything else can appreciably reduce the fuel load in those vast, rugged areas, so the only real option is to stop building on the fringes of the high risk zones - and to change the building codes to strictly forbid construction of wood frame homes in San Diego County. Steel-frame only, with fire-resistant exteriors should be a requirement.
Saddleback Community College in Mission Viejo has been closed...and Ladera Ranch has started evacuations...
First, I used to live in SoCal. I’ve seen the terrain, I’ve hiked the terrain, I used to volunteer for the USFS in the Angeles NF.
So yes, I’ve got a clue. Been there, seen that.
Second: we’ve got plenty of steep terrain here in Nevada. Everyone thinks that Nevada looks like what they see in the low desert around Vegas. That terrain holds true only up to US-6, which runs east/west across the state. North of that, we have a basin/range topology, with plenty of steep, heavily wooded terrain.
So we’ve got much of the same terrain in the northern part of the state as you’re dealing with there in SoCal.
What do I suggest? They should be doing urban interface projects, the way we’ve had to ram through courts and the IBLA out here in Nevada. You don’t have to clean up all the wooded terrain, but you should be thinning the urban/wildland interfaces. You should be spraying to kill the bark beetles. Where the bark beetles have killed significant stands of trees, they should be logged out.
And yes, this is going to require moving lots of people to and fro. You can do it while it is fuel, or you can do it when it is alight. Your choice.
Well, you wouldn’t be contracting out the ‘right’ to controlled burns, but accepting bids to conduct them within certain parameters.
I think that it could be done, but the “land management agencies” (as they fashion themselves) would resist the idea of contracting out the controlled burns. I’ve seen the results of private contractors lighting backfires here in Nevada, and they’re far more competent than the BLM, so there is merit in having it contracted out.
Having seen the budgets to fight these fires, and the insurance claims that result from when they get away from you, you’re raising a strawman.
You can pay now, or you can pay later. Californians have chosen to pay later.
If you’ve been paying attention, insurance carriers are not renewing policy coverage for homeowners in the face of fires like this since the last big spate of fires you had. In a couple more years, homeowners and businesses will be 100% on the hook for the costs of loss and recovery as a result of these fires.
At that point, I think Californians will find a way to clear that brush out more cheaply.
And, BTW — I’ve seen what the modern state of mechanical thinning machinery is here. I think you’d be pleasantly surprised at what the new machines can accomplish in tight, steep terrain. The machines exist. The contractors exist. The market for the wood exists.
What Californians lack is the will to *do* something about the problem.
According to the Smithsonian book of North American Animals goats spend ten percent of their time on slopes over 60° (or 170%), and that's without shepherds or dogs to keep them there to eat. The vast bulk of the Southwestern terrain of concern here is below that slope. Continuing on your false premise,
so the only real option is to stop building on the fringes of the high risk zones - and to change the building codes to strictly forbid construction of wood frame homes in San Diego County. Steel-frame only, with fire-resistant exteriors should be a requirement.
You've got government designing houses, eh? Great idea. I can just see the lobbyists lining up to get in on that feeding frenzy. Who needs an honest buck when we've got Sustained Develop-mint!
ccg, we've got another one.
Dave, Nevada is not California. Outside of Vegas and Reno, Nevada has a tiny population. It's has no where near the homes, the population, or annual Santa Ana winds, mixed with low humidity etc.
There are homes and small towns scattered all over thousands of square miles, filled with brush, that when hit with fire, can travel at 50 miles per hour, throwing hot embers miles ahead of the actual fire, hop scotching all over the place. I know some here would like to manage all of this, and I wish it were possible.
Other than stopping building, sprawl, restricting where they can build, there is little that can be done, outside of using fire retardant building materials, green belts, clearing brush etc...which most have already done...But even then, there is no guarantee in these types of wind blown fire storms.
I just got home from work and didn’t even know of these fires. She showed me the fire map and the quantity of fires immediately made me think 911 part two. Then I asked her, “how did they start?” She said arson.
According to the google map, all of the populated west part of Southern California is on fire. I strongly suspect this is an organized attack. I doubt it is the enviro-wenies but more likely muslims.
Impeach Bush for not putting a stop to these fires.
“Any threat to Camp Pendleton?”
They are evacuating Fallbrook. This is not good news. If the fire spreads in the wrong direction.. it could really be disasterous.
I’m sorry it took so long to answer...I’m at work. Um, working. :)
Have they found someplace to stay???
Wow.
My niece is in Hesperia and said wildlife is heading their way. She say numerous hawks in the sky over her home.
My aunt worked at Norton. She was a civilian working for General Shultz. I think. I’m sure about his last name, not sure about the “general”.
I was in that area yesterday and the winds were so strong there were many many trucks over on their side. My SUV was really rocking.
My niece was heading home to Hesperia and said the wood on the guard rails on the side of the road just burst into flames.
Yeah, and NV has nowhere near the amount of enviro-wackos that CA does.
When the South Tahoe Fire started this summer, it was the CA side that got burnt while the NV side stayed unburnt.
I point out to you that the NV residents of Tahoe were fined for not clearing their properties of low-lying fuel and scheduling tree removal, while at the same time a CA-side resident of the lake was hit with multiple felony counts for having three trees on his property felled without an impossible-to-get permit.
Also, the CA side of the lake is required to actually place pine needles down on their property to allegedly 'prevent erosion in order to preserve the clarity of the lake'.
If I'm lying, I'm dying.
that would be a good shoot
Gramma, you and I have been here a long time - as you well know, there's always gotta be some a**hole on every disaster thread, blaming everybody who lives there for what's happening. I guess we should be used to it by now, but it still eats at the craw.
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