"Scalping" Is Just Another Word For "Business"

Boston Herald ^ | October 23, 2007 | Michael Graham

[frankiep]

Performers have no inalienable rights to have their tickets not resold.

The laws against scalping, and the contractual agreements they have with authorized vendors would indicate otherwise.z

[HiTech RedNeck]

Of course, the promotees have no voice in this process. Maybe they would WANT to put on their show to the poor rather than to the rich.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Au contraire, if they had the power (which unfortunately they usually don’t when they are depending on a promoter) they could apply any condition they wish, just like airlines do to seats they sell.

[SirFishalot]

Au contraire, if they had the power (which unfortunately they usually don’t when they are depending on a promoter) they could apply any condition they wish, just like airlines do to seats they sell.

Every measure of security and limitation that you place on a ticket adds sales/distribution infrastructure overhead expense to the ticket price. Trust me, I've spent a lot of years on tour buses with multi-millionaire performers and I have never heard even one of them complain about high ticket prices while they were earning and counting their money. Most of them would gladly push their ticket price up to $1000 each if they thought that they could still sell out the venue. The only time I've ever heard an artist complain about high ticket prices was when they have a fan complaining to them or they have to speak about it in public, which is actually a lot of bullshit since it is really the artist that determines the initial ticket price. As far as scalpers, the artists hate them because, often times, the scalper is actually making far more net income on the artists product than the artist is. One of the hotter, and quieter, things currently going on in the music biz these days are "private" concerts. These are concerts thrown by corporations and private individuals for special events. The artist can net much more on these since the overall production costs are lower and almost no middlemen.

[SirFishalot]

It has everything to do with the rights of the performers who obviously don’t want tickets to their events to be priced so that only people with alot of money can afford to see them, thus alienating a large part of their audience. It’s how they wish to market themselves and their product (talent) and is the reason why they contract vendors to sell tickets at a certain price.

Actually, concert ticket prices are set the same way that any other retail product is priced. Their ultimate goal is to sell out all venues at the highest price that the market will bear. Normally, a tour needs to sell close to 90% of the seats in order to break even.

[dearolddad]

Until you get organizations that buy up hundreds, or thousands, of tickets to an event with the sole intention of jacking up the prices far beyond their original sale price. Trust me, it happens - and it is the regular Joe who is left out in the cold.

Simple solution: Don't buy them.

[SirFishalot]

Yes. I have been saying that all along. Entertainers put their names on those tickets. Their reputation and goodwill amongst their fans are on the line. This is why they will put a price of $40 on a ticket when there are people out there willing to pay $400. They know that most of their fans cannot afford to pay $400 and therefore will price them at a level they feel will not anger them. Of course they may be able to sellout an event at much higher prices but they know that it will come at the cost of losing fans who cannot afford the asking price; who in almost all cases far outnumber those who can. This is why they set up deals with contractually approved vendors to sell tickets at a specific price, and this is why it is illegal, unethical, and immoral to scalp tickets.

While you are correct that the initial ticket price is normally a contracted figure between the artist and the promoter, the fact of the matter is that, if the artist really wanted to limit it to a set price, the only efficient way to do it would be for the customer to pay at the door as they enter the venue.

[SirFishalot]

Big difference. Companies that issue stock WANT the price of that stock to go up. Promoters who sell tickets, and the entertainers themselves have a very real reason to want to keep ticket prices to their performances within a certain range since. Since the performer is the one doing the work it is the performers right to say how much a ticket will cost. Like I said already, this problem is getting so out of hand that we are already starting to see stronger controls against scalping.

Again, the biggest reason why promoters and artists don't like scalpers is because the very existance of the scalpers exposes the fact that they missed out on a higher net profit because they misjudged and underpriced the product. If they really and truly wanted to control the end sale price, they would charge at the door instead of presale.

[GreenAccord]

There are ways you can get tickets to concerts.

The first is join your local radio station’s “clubs” so have access to PRESALE tickets through Ticketmaster.

The second is to join the groups/bands fan club. It may cost $25/year but it will also give you access to “presale” tickets.

This is actually what happened for these shows. There was a substantial amount of tickets pre-sold to the Fan Club members. My neighbor tried to join up her kids the day or so before, but they weren't offering tickets to new enlistees, so that wouldn't have worked. In any event, the true number of tickets available to the purchasing public was a fraction of the total tickets to the show.

We have four tickets and I keep joking with my wife and daughters that good old Hannah Montana wants to buy airline tickets if we sell the show tickets. My oldest daughter frowns.

[SirFishalot]

Of course, the promotees have no voice in this process. Maybe they would WANT to put on their show to the poor rather than to the rich.

Nobody is stopping them from renting a large field somewhere and charging a buck or two a person, heck, even just putting out a barrel and telling customers to pay whatever they fell it is worth for that matter.

Let's keep this whole issue in perspective. Concert, sports, theater, etc... we are talking about entertainment here. It is a luxury item, not a neccessity.

[dmz]

You are missing his point. The buyers out there are PAYING these ridiculous ‘scalping’ prices.
______________

I won’t suggest that you have missed the point, simply that you are addressing another, different, point. From a theoretical point of view, you are absolutely correct, this is a classic supply and demand case study.

Taken out of its theoretical context, and placed into the real world, where this is actually playing out, it loses some of its theoretical purity. This is an artificially created scarcity, done for the specific purpose of driving up the price of the tix and the profits of the ticket brokers. Seen this way, the reality of the situation is a nice case study for how free markets can be manipulated.

[Disturbin]

If they TRULY wanted to prevent so-called scalping, they would only sell tickets once you are inside the door.

As long as you have an outside ticket booth, and allow online and other methods of ticket sales, there will be scalping.

I tried to get tickets to two shows this summer, both of which were sold out within one minute of ticketmaster’s announced sale time. I don’t feel like paying one of these pro resale outfits, so I won’t go.

[rb22982]

A law is not an inalienable right.

[rb22982]

You actually think performers care if tickets go high? They say they do to keep the majority of their fans happy but it’s a load of BS. Most get a portion of the net proceeds.

[rb22982]

It’s not really an artificial scarcity. If all the tickets went up for sale on Ebay for things like Hannah Montana with a starting bid of .01, they’d probably end up much higher than the current list price. Others could go lower. The venues price it themselves making an educated guess on what the supply/demand is plus what the artist/record(s) will allow to some degree. They are frequently wrong.

[frankiep]

So you want to argue about semantics. Fine. It’s not an inalienable right, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that it is illegal and that breaking these laws are immoral and unethical.

Besides, I was only saying that scalping is illegal for good reasons. You were the one who made the leap to bringing up inalienable rights, not me. But like I said, it’s semantics and has nothing to do with the issue anyway.

[rb22982]

Scalping shouldn’t be illegal. Stupid paying ridiculous scalping prices should be illegal. Let them eat their losses and they go away. Live shows are already way overpriced anyway before the ‘scalping’ price.

[Da Bilge Troll]

Until you get organizations that buy up hundreds, or thousands, of tickets to an event with the sole intention of jacking up the prices far beyond their original sale price.

And so what? They can't just demand any price they want or they may end up with a lot of expensive pieces of cardstock when nobody buys. Supply and demand will set the price. The "original sale price" was too low to begin with. If I can't afford it, I don't go. Boo hoo.