Posted on 10/25/2007 6:20:52 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
For about an hour last August, Gary Hoffman was a very lucky man.
Hoffman was playing the nickel slot machines at the Sandia Resort and Casino on an Indian reservation in New Mexico, when he appeared to hit the jackpot: the machine said he won nearly $1.6 million.
"I became ecstatic," he said.
But the ecstasy was short-lived. Hoffman says in a lawsuit filed earlier this year that Sandia refused to pay, claiming that the machine malfunctioned. Instead, he said, they gave him about $385 and a few free meals at the casino.[snip].....
[snip]Regardless, a jury may never get chance to hear Hoffman's case. Native American tribes, as independent nations, have their own court systems and can be sued in state courts only under limited circumstances. New Mexico law generally does not allow tribes to be sued in a state court over a contract dispute, Kleiman said.....
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
I always wonder when it says ‘malfunction voids all pays’.
How would a player know if it’s really a malfunction or just the Casino not paying? Many jackpots are probably not paid using this excuse.
The more they play these games the more bad publicity they generate and the less it is that people will spend their money there.
Could be. If I went to a casino I would not go to an Indian one.
What to do? Stay away. Play at places where a regulatory body responsible to the public controls how the casino is operated.
Outside of Nevada and New Jersey where are you gonna find a non-Indian casino?
If the casino does not end up making a better offer to this person they risk alienating a number of potential gamblers. From a PR campaign perspective, it would be bad business to not settle this more favorably.
Indian givers?.............
The machine has a disclaimer saying the max payout is $2500. I’d say a message telling you you’ve won over a million is a pretty good indicator of a malfunction.
That being said, I guess the best move is to gamble in the United States, not on an Indian Reservation.
Mississippi, Louisiana......
OK, absurd as that is with a state that has a lottery, here’s what happened.
Those slot machines would only have gone into the type of taverns that already had pull tabs, a form of gambling, not your high-class, family-type restaurants. The antis also didn’t want gambling in their neighborhood.
But here’s the real catcher: the Indians can build casinos only on ‘reservation’ land. So what they do is buy up a few buildings on a block and donate it to the ‘reservation.’ Voila, instant (FULL) gambling where they want it.
I don’t gamble and really don’t care for it. But allowing slots in taverns where they are already allowed to gamble would have put the first chink in the armor of an absurd, tax-free enterprise on lands where the people COULD IMPLEMENT SHARIA LAW, if they so choose.
The people lost. The Indians won. Their casinos continue to pop up. The idiots in Seattle think they won something. Glad I left.
Indiana has at least 4
Monty Python had an insurance sketch in which a man has an accident, goes to his insurance broker who acts very, very sympathetic, but does reveal that the man purchased a "No Payment Policy" which says that no matter what happens to the man, the insurance company doesn't have to pay him. So sorry.
Given this, you’d have to be an idiot to play at one of those casinos.
There are three major non-Indian casinos on the Ohio River in southern Indiana.
This guy is an ass hat .. the same type of malfunctions occur in Vegas Casinos and guess what ... they don’t pay off for the malfunction either ... he should have taken the $2500 ...
now he gets squat ..
Many states have casinos not run by Indians
Mississippi, Louisiana, Missouri, Iowa, South Dakota (Deadwood), Illinois, Indiana, West Virginia (slots only)....
Probably missing a few, but you can avoid the Indian casinos w/out having to go to Vegas or Jersey
Better yet, get an actual life instead of spending time feeding nickles into a machine that will give you back part of them.
Sovereign Immunity sure does not work for tax free tobacco sales.
I was thinking that a $1.6 million payout on nickel slots seems extremely unlikely - they just don’t have jackpots that big on nickel slots.
There was quite an article in the local paper last year pointing violations out; fire inspectors said they'd shut Fantasy Springs down if they could - improper exit signs, lack of safety "push" doors and that sort of thing.
I play the home version:
1. Take your money in one hand.
2. Throw it over your shoulder.
That way, my wife and kids always win.
Pennsylvania (slots only) and West Virginia which just added table games.
Louisiana, Mississippi, and New Jersey. Some on the Ohio river, Illinois I think, I believe I’d heard of casinos in Michigan.
I actually agree with the casino. The max jackpot on the machine was $2500 and states as such. The machine showed he won $1.6M. Not the same as if the machine was able to pay that amount.
They offered him the max payout. Apparently he refused it.
In order for me to accept that there would have to be big signs at every entrance of the casino warning that each and every slot machine has a posted maximum payout and that maximum is posted,very prominently,on each machine.The warning would have to further state that *any* payout displayed by a machine that exceeds that machine's posted max will not be honored.
The key to my statement is...no "fine print".The warnings must be large and must be found all over the casino...including on each machine.In fact,each machine must be set up to require that a player respond to some prompt from the machine informing each player of the limits rule and the response must be "I understand and accept these rules".
A glitch? What the rigged machined didn’t work as it was supposed to? Perhaps they should go back to weighted dice. The casino is responsible for its machines. It should have insurance to cover liablilty of gliches.
Think about it the other way: if you gambled with money you didn’t have (perhaps a bad check that initally passed), would the casino accept an excuse about a glitch in calculating your bank balance? Or would they take you out back and scalp you?
Additionally, the bank error analogy is erroueous since there was not a wager placed to win that amount.
Exactly. The definition of a win should be when the machine displays a win, malfunction or no, unless it can be proven that the player tampered with the machine. It is the responsibility of the casino the ensure that the slot machines are working properly.
I agree with the posters who say that NOT paying out the jackpot will probably cost the casino more in bad publicity and lost revenue than just paying it.
Also, a treaty is a treaty. If we granted them Sovereign Immunity, then they have Sovereign Immunity. Don’t like it? Stay off the reservation.
I'm inclined to agree.I've been to Vegas before (because I was dating a girl who lived there) and I've been to Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun once (I was driving by).In the several visits I've made to casinos in my life I've wagered less than $5...and lost all of it.Lotteries and casinos were designed for those who flunked math.
You could certianly try to idiot proof it, but the world builds better idiots every day.
There was no wager placed to win $1.6 million either. He placed a wager to win $2,500.
He should sue the slot manufacturer, IGT. A billion-dallar company might pay off just to avoid the bad publicity.
If they have sovereign immunity how come they get to vote in US elections?
LOL. great post.
I’m betting (pun) the tribe in question pays out the amount in an out of court settlement.
Thats the smart move from a business viewpoint. Casino’s that get the rep they don’t pay when they lose don’t survive.
This isn’t the first time they have ripped of patrons. They should have to post a big advertisenment stating “We are Indian givers”
“If I went to a casino I would not go to an Indian one.”
Agreed. First few casinos I ever visited were Indian casinos. Later I visited Vegas and disovered the Indian casinos I had been to were dumps in comparison.
In PA, there have been MANY times jackpots were reneged on. They say the machine was not ready to pay. That’s like saying the dealer gave out too many aces so we won’t pay. This is only one of the reasons the slots will fail in PA>
I think it depends then on how prominent the Max $2500 sign is. If it is easily noticed, then the guy doesn't have a case, but if it is hideen of the machine, then guy wouldn't know what the max is.
Methinks the whole “malfunction” thing is just a BS excuse to not pay up.
A legit malfunction voids the payout...but how does one prove it did or did not “malfunction?”
A malfunction is probably simply a malfunction in the casino’s bank account and their desire to part with the cash.
In this case then it’s different but in other similar cases I’ve heard, I would say the casino was screwing around not wanting to pay.
Even nickel machines can be part of progressive jackpot pools.
There was a payout of $7.8 million on a nickel machine in Reno, on Jan. 27.
Pennsylvania!! Mt. Airy in the Poconos and Harrah’s? in Chester Pa .
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