Posted on 11/11/2007 5:02:18 AM PST by mreerm
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
IBTZ
Again?
What’s there to zot about this? There is nothing misleading here.
earlier thread, different source, details, &c:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1924020/posts
oops same story, the excerpt fooled me
Probably got a hand up from the Los Alamos sell out by the Clinton of military technology secrets.
The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise,(military chiefs red-faced)
Moreover, according to FR's resident naval expert Jeff Head, the ChiCom sub may have been "convinced" to surface during the encounter. If so, then it was probably a 688 attack sub accompanying the Kitty Hawk that scared the ChiComs out of the water.
Makes sense to me VR.
Regards
Shippy ping.
I am not sure why they are mystified, subs technology has made them incredibly quiet and very difficult to pick up by sonar.
Especially since some Japanese industrialist sold them top secret bearing manufacturing technology.
Was his name Bill Clinton? Oh, was that propeller technology and nuclear technology? It so hard to remember, Clinton gave the Chi-coms so much in return for those party favors.
Toshiba sold a lot of that tech to the Soviets. Remember than when you are shopping for a laptop.
It is a story that is more than a year old and for some reason it has appeared several times on FR in this run-up to Veterans Day.
Thanks a bunch Bubba and Hill Clinton, Bernard Swartz and Bill Richardson. You guys sold us down the river.
This is the third time in the past two days that this unproved story has been posted on Free Republic.
Note the date on the by-line;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/13/uchina113.xml
In all honesty...Bush is just as much to blame as the Klintlers.
Bush continues free trade w Commie China...and did nothing when our servicemen were kidnapped by the ChiComs in 2001
Now we have ChiComs buying into US businesses...some w sensitive technology...Bush has done nothing.
Why we didnt blast that ChiCom sub puzzles me...I guess more pandering to the ChiComs
‘Moreover, according to FR’s resident naval expert Jeff Head, the ChiCom sub may have been “convinced” to surface during the encounter. If so, then it was probably a 688 attack sub accompanying the Kitty Hawk that scared the ChiComs out of the water.’
A reassuring theory except that a sub should never be allowed to get remotely that close to a carrier. That’s the role of the picket ships, to keep them away. Active sonar pinging from any ship is enough to convince a sub skipper it’s time to leave.
Very Johnney Quest
And of course, the current occupant of the WH - who has given them MFN status, absolute access to our markets, the keys to the Panama Canal, and sends his Treasury Secretary to Kow-Tow like a fool - is utterly without blame or responsibility, right?
The fact that Admiral Fallon was made Commander of US Central Command in March of this year, after this supposedly happened, leads me to believe that either this report is false or that there is much more to it than has been published.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/bios/navybio.asp?bioID=109
Every sub as its ‘signature’ and one way to detect it farther away is to know exactly what you’re looking for and then figure out how to hear it sooner.
I find it hard to believe that we spend what we do on intelligence and defense and an enemy sub could simply sail up and surface flying a big ‘SURPRISE’ flag.
Good thinking!
One Worlders need just that....One World including China.
We continue to elect people of this mindset, we will continue to have these problems.
What’s Chinese for “peekaboo!”
Maybe I’m guilty of wishful thinking but I think whatever happened it happened with the full knowledge of our military. The report says the sub surfaced in the middle of the exercise. I read that to be the sub was ‘surrounded’ with each ship in the task force taking and recording its own readings so that later a computer could build a model of the signature that would identify it from any direction.
I could be entirely wrong, but if I am then we’re in a whole lot of trouble!
SUPPLIES!
Of course the first reply to the thread is claiming IBTZ. How dare we post these types of stories! I’ve seen it plenty of times, especially from Freepers who casually downplay what happened.
Move along, move along. Nothing to see here. /sarc
Name one thing that we know for certain that the chinese invented all by themselves in the last 200 years...exactly!
Now why should we believe that all of a sudden the chinese have created something that nobody else has and nobody else has the capability to make, match, or surpass?
If the chinese do indeed have this tech, then we have something better.
What is zot and what is ibtz?
HARHARHARHAR! That’s my favorite joke (for mixed company)!
Do we have 'signatures' on this class of submarine?
And if so can we detect them using our passive sonars?
Or do we have to resort to active sonars?
Wish I could be more helpful, but he won’t tell me a thing! My father was a navy hull inspector on the nucelar subs of the 60’s and 70’s. Even their abilities were astounding. The shipyard where he worked built the last conventional sub and four of the first nuclear subs. By today’s standards they are like comparing the Mayflower to the QE II, but for 40 plus years ago they were mighty impressive.
I agree that the ChiCom sub should have never gotten that close in the first place. Hence, my comment yesterday about the USN studiply dismantling its ASW capabilities in the 1990s.
Sneaky - must be all that lead in the paint.
Flucuations!
The chinese invented gunpowder but not much since then...unless you want to count the fortune cookie too.
That’s a little before the year 1800AD. And some dispute the claim that the chinese invented the use of gunpowder. They definitely invented the substance, but they only used it in firecrackers, small rockets, and small pottery “grenades”. These were bamboo tubes filled with gunpowder and broken bits of pottery shards. THese weapons(?) were used for the purpose of scaring horses to break up a cavalry charge. And for scaring troops that had never seen it before.
The first effective firearms were developed in europe. The first effective gunpowder was developed by europeans.
This is a facsinating topic for me and i know little about it. What are these “batteries” made of? ARe they giant lead-acid devices? In a nuke powered sub, is the propulsion done via steam directly? Or is the steam used to turn tubines that then turn electric generators? Are NASA-like fuel cells used anywhere in subs?
How about magnetic bearings? It seems to me these would be the quietest of all bearings. And ball bearings probaly the noisiest, followed by roller bearings and then plain bearings.
ibtz is “in before the zot”, which essentially means that you’ve posted to this thread before it was “zotted” or deleted, by the admin moderator.
The post above was meant for you!
I believe most commonly used batteries on modern electric subs are Li-ion cells (pretty much like the rechargable batteries in most power-tools and consumer electronics). Low maintenance, no environment impact (which is a huge issue since a sub is a closed environment) and high energy density.
Nowadays, electric subs are always constructed so that an electric motor, powered from either batteries or the generator, drives the propellers and you have some primary propulsion (diesel, AIP etc) driving the generator behind it. Main reason for this is that you really don’t want your noisy diesel engine connected to the propeller-shaft as that would transmit a lot of unnecessary noise into the water.
Its too bad there isn’t a device that can generate electricity directly from radioactive material without any moving parts.
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