Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Chinese sub successfully sneeks up on U.S. Navy
Daily Mail ^ | 10th November 2007 | MATTHEW HICKLEY

Posted on 11/11/2007 5:02:18 AM PST by mreerm

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: submarine; usskittyhawk
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last

1 posted on 11/11/2007 5:02:19 AM PST by mreerm
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: mreerm

IBTZ


2 posted on 11/11/2007 5:03:45 AM PST by Roccus (Hillary........brought to you by the PRC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mreerm

Again?


3 posted on 11/11/2007 5:06:17 AM PST by ARE SOLE (Agents Ramos and Campean are in prison at this very moment.. (A "Concerned Citizen".))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Roccus

What’s there to zot about this? There is nothing misleading here.


4 posted on 11/11/2007 5:06:30 AM PST by marvlus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Roccus

earlier thread, different source, details, &c:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1924020/posts


5 posted on 11/11/2007 5:07:27 AM PST by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: jiggyboy

oops same story, the excerpt fooled me


6 posted on 11/11/2007 5:08:35 AM PST by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: mreerm

Probably got a hand up from the Los Alamos sell out by the Clinton of military technology secrets.


7 posted on 11/11/2007 5:09:02 AM PST by kindred (I am voting conservatives like Hunter,or Third Party. No vote for Rudy or other rinos.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mreerm; Jeff Head
This is apparently recycled news, based on a thread from yesterday. Note that the article doesn't give the date when the incident happened.

The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise,(military chiefs red-faced)

Moreover, according to FR's resident naval expert Jeff Head, the ChiCom sub may have been "convinced" to surface during the encounter. If so, then it was probably a 688 attack sub accompanying the Kitty Hawk that scared the ChiComs out of the water.

8 posted on 11/11/2007 5:09:40 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner (“We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!” --Duncan Hunter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Makes sense to me VR.

Regards


9 posted on 11/11/2007 5:10:53 AM PST by ARE SOLE (Agents Ramos and Campean are in prison at this very moment.. (A "Concerned Citizen".))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: RedRover

Shippy ping.


10 posted on 11/11/2007 5:16:36 AM PST by lilycicero (Blame it on the socks.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mreerm

I am not sure why they are mystified, subs technology has made them incredibly quiet and very difficult to pick up by sonar.


11 posted on 11/11/2007 5:20:48 AM PST by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Always Right
subs technology has made them incredibly quiet and very difficult to pick up by sonar.

Especially since some Japanese industrialist sold them top secret bearing manufacturing technology.

12 posted on 11/11/2007 5:30:05 AM PST by Banjoguy (The stench that surrounds us, emanates from Washington, D.C.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Banjoguy
Especially since some Japanese industrialist sold them top secret bearing manufacturing technology.

Was his name Bill Clinton? Oh, was that propeller technology and nuclear technology? It so hard to remember, Clinton gave the Chi-coms so much in return for those party favors.

13 posted on 11/11/2007 5:34:12 AM PST by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Always Right

Toshiba sold a lot of that tech to the Soviets. Remember than when you are shopping for a laptop.


14 posted on 11/11/2007 5:40:21 AM PST by Salo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: marvlus

It is a story that is more than a year old and for some reason it has appeared several times on FR in this run-up to Veterans Day.


15 posted on 11/11/2007 5:41:05 AM PST by Roccus (Hillary........brought to you by the PRC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: mreerm

Thanks a bunch Bubba and Hill Clinton, Bernard Swartz and Bill Richardson. You guys sold us down the river.


16 posted on 11/11/2007 5:42:10 AM PST by rod1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mreerm

17 posted on 11/11/2007 5:43:10 AM PST by Eye of Unk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mreerm

This is the third time in the past two days that this unproved story has been posted on Free Republic.


18 posted on 11/11/2007 5:45:14 AM PST by em2vn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marvlus

Note the date on the by-line;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/13/uchina113.xml


19 posted on 11/11/2007 5:46:41 AM PST by Roccus (Hillary........brought to you by the PRC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: mreerm

20 posted on 11/11/2007 5:50:50 AM PST by Eye of Unk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mreerm

21 posted on 11/11/2007 5:51:58 AM PST by Eye of Unk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

In all honesty...Bush is just as much to blame as the Klintlers.

Bush continues free trade w Commie China...and did nothing when our servicemen were kidnapped by the ChiComs in 2001

Now we have ChiComs buying into US businesses...some w sensitive technology...Bush has done nothing.

Why we didnt blast that ChiCom sub puzzles me...I guess more pandering to the ChiComs


22 posted on 11/11/2007 5:53:49 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Free Trade with Communist China isn't supporting capitalism...it's subsidizing Communism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Virginia Ridgerunner

‘Moreover, according to FR’s resident naval expert Jeff Head, the ChiCom sub may have been “convinced” to surface during the encounter. If so, then it was probably a 688 attack sub accompanying the Kitty Hawk that scared the ChiComs out of the water.’

A reassuring theory except that a sub should never be allowed to get remotely that close to a carrier. That’s the role of the picket ships, to keep them away. Active sonar pinging from any ship is enough to convince a sub skipper it’s time to leave.


23 posted on 11/11/2007 5:55:11 AM PST by PreciousLiberty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Eye of Unk

Very Johnney Quest


24 posted on 11/11/2007 5:57:02 AM PST by colonialhk (Harry and Nancy are our best moron allies)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Always Right
It so hard to remember, Clinton gave the Chi-coms so much in return for those party favors

And of course, the current occupant of the WH - who has given them MFN status, absolute access to our markets, the keys to the Panama Canal, and sends his Treasury Secretary to Kow-Tow like a fool - is utterly without blame or responsibility, right?

25 posted on 11/11/2007 6:05:04 AM PST by Regulator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: marvlus; mreerm

The fact that Admiral Fallon was made Commander of US Central Command in March of this year, after this supposedly happened, leads me to believe that either this report is false or that there is much more to it than has been published.

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/bios/navybio.asp?bioID=109


26 posted on 11/11/2007 6:05:10 AM PST by Roccus (Hillary........brought to you by the PRC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: mreerm
Come on guys, think about this for a minute. What better way to find out what methods the enemy is using to approach you than letting him think it’s working and getting the scoop as he ‘sneaks’ up on you? It’s much more to their advantage to feign a red face than scare them away without getting the information they are bound to be giving away by moving in so close when they think are undetected. Investigators use this ruse all the time. The close the sub gets to our forces the more we can learn about them. No matter how hard they try they are emitting all sorts of interesting signals, etc. as they approach. For instance, maybe we want to find out for sure just how close one can get before we hear its super-quiet bearings or pick up on the fact it’s pinging our fleet.

Every sub as its ‘signature’ and one way to detect it farther away is to know exactly what you’re looking for and then figure out how to hear it sooner.

I find it hard to believe that we spend what we do on intelligence and defense and an enemy sub could simply sail up and surface flying a big ‘SURPRISE’ flag.

27 posted on 11/11/2007 6:08:27 AM PST by jwparkerjr (Sigh . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jwparkerjr

Good thinking!


28 posted on 11/11/2007 6:20:40 AM PST by clippedwing (When the bomb drops, the BS stops.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Regulator

One Worlders need just that....One World including China.

We continue to elect people of this mindset, we will continue to have these problems.


29 posted on 11/11/2007 7:12:28 AM PST by wolfcreek (The Status Quo Sucks!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: lilycicero

What’s Chinese for “peekaboo!”


30 posted on 11/11/2007 7:18:23 AM PST by RedRover (Drop your socks and grab your...er...never mind.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: clippedwing

Maybe I’m guilty of wishful thinking but I think whatever happened it happened with the full knowledge of our military. The report says the sub surfaced in the middle of the exercise. I read that to be the sub was ‘surrounded’ with each ship in the task force taking and recording its own readings so that later a computer could build a model of the signature that would identify it from any direction.

I could be entirely wrong, but if I am then we’re in a whole lot of trouble!


31 posted on 11/11/2007 7:45:25 AM PST by jwparkerjr (Sigh . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: RedRover

SUPPLIES!


32 posted on 11/11/2007 7:49:44 AM PST by mamelukesabre
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: mreerm

Of course the first reply to the thread is claiming IBTZ. How dare we post these types of stories! I’ve seen it plenty of times, especially from Freepers who casually downplay what happened.

Move along, move along. Nothing to see here. /sarc


33 posted on 11/11/2007 7:53:31 AM PST by abercrombie_guy_38
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jwparkerjr
I look at it this way...

Name one thing that we know for certain that the chinese invented all by themselves in the last 200 years...exactly!

Now why should we believe that all of a sudden the chinese have created something that nobody else has and nobody else has the capability to make, match, or surpass?

If the chinese do indeed have this tech, then we have something better.

34 posted on 11/11/2007 7:53:41 AM PST by mamelukesabre
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: marvlus

What is zot and what is ibtz?


35 posted on 11/11/2007 7:54:43 AM PST by mamelukesabre
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre

HARHARHARHAR! That’s my favorite joke (for mixed company)!


36 posted on 11/11/2007 7:58:05 AM PST by RedRover (DefendOurMarines.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: jwparkerjr
Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.

Do we have 'signatures' on this class of submarine?

And if so can we detect them using our passive sonars?

Or do we have to resort to active sonars?

37 posted on 11/11/2007 8:02:59 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (NY Times: "fake but accurate")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan
I really don’t know. I am sure they have a way of identifying individual vessels, or certainly the class of vessal. I suspect they keep the level of what they do know, and what they learn from encounters like this, close to their chest. I have a son-in-law who is an officer at CentCom here in Tampa and although he is VERY close-mouthed about what he does and what they know, I get the feeling it’s a lot more than most people, especially the Dims, really know.

Wish I could be more helpful, but he won’t tell me a thing! My father was a navy hull inspector on the nucelar subs of the 60’s and 70’s. Even their abilities were astounding. The shipyard where he worked built the last conventional sub and four of the first nuclear subs. By today’s standards they are like comparing the Mayflower to the QE II, but for 40 plus years ago they were mighty impressive.

38 posted on 11/11/2007 8:14:52 AM PST by jwparkerjr (Sigh . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: PreciousLiberty

I agree that the ChiCom sub should have never gotten that close in the first place. Hence, my comment yesterday about the USN studiply dismantling its ASW capabilities in the 1990s.


39 posted on 11/11/2007 8:25:23 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner (“We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!” --Duncan Hunter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: mreerm
Posted on 11/11/2007 5:02:18 AM PST by mreerm

I think people successfully sneaked up on 'mreerm' as a young child.
40 posted on 11/11/2007 8:25:35 AM PST by gipper81
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mreerm

Sneaky - must be all that lead in the paint.


41 posted on 11/11/2007 8:29:51 AM PST by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is July 4th, but DemocRATs believe every day is April 15th. - Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RedRover; mamelukesabre

Flucuations!


42 posted on 11/11/2007 9:13:48 AM PST by lilycicero (Flucuations for the Supplies!!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre
Name one thing that we know for certain that the chinese invented all by themselves in the last 200 years...exactly!

The chinese invented gunpowder but not much since then...unless you want to count the fortune cookie too.

43 posted on 11/11/2007 9:14:05 AM PST by Mogollon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan
Submarines running on the battery are EXTREMELY quiet and have very short detection ranges. In my time as a Submarine Sonar man we had an adage, “if you hear him on the batt, he’s way too close already.”
It is conceivable that this guy got in, seeing the huge disparity in our surface fleet’s training in ASW over the years..but I’d like to think there was an LA class out there “cutting tape” on him as he did this *L*
44 posted on 11/11/2007 10:43:00 AM PST by Bottom_Gun (Crush depth dummy - proud NRA member & Certified Instructor)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Mogollon
Gunpowder eh?

That’s a little before the year 1800AD. And some dispute the claim that the chinese invented the use of gunpowder. They definitely invented the substance, but they only used it in firecrackers, small rockets, and small pottery “grenades”. These were bamboo tubes filled with gunpowder and broken bits of pottery shards. THese weapons(?) were used for the purpose of scaring horses to break up a cavalry charge. And for scaring troops that had never seen it before.

The first effective firearms were developed in europe. The first effective gunpowder was developed by europeans.

45 posted on 11/11/2007 1:05:45 PM PST by mamelukesabre
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Bottom_Gun

This is a facsinating topic for me and i know little about it. What are these “batteries” made of? ARe they giant lead-acid devices? In a nuke powered sub, is the propulsion done via steam directly? Or is the steam used to turn tubines that then turn electric generators? Are NASA-like fuel cells used anywhere in subs?

How about magnetic bearings? It seems to me these would be the quietest of all bearings. And ball bearings probaly the noisiest, followed by roller bearings and then plain bearings.


46 posted on 11/11/2007 1:26:16 PM PST by mamelukesabre
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: RedRover

ibtz is “in before the zot”, which essentially means that you’ve posted to this thread before it was “zotted” or deleted, by the admin moderator.


47 posted on 11/11/2007 4:43:43 PM PST by marvlus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre

The post above was meant for you!


48 posted on 11/11/2007 5:09:11 PM PST by RedRover (DefendOurMarines.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre

I believe most commonly used batteries on modern electric subs are Li-ion cells (pretty much like the rechargable batteries in most power-tools and consumer electronics). Low maintenance, no environment impact (which is a huge issue since a sub is a closed environment) and high energy density.

Nowadays, electric subs are always constructed so that an electric motor, powered from either batteries or the generator, drives the propellers and you have some primary propulsion (diesel, AIP etc) driving the generator behind it. Main reason for this is that you really don’t want your noisy diesel engine connected to the propeller-shaft as that would transmit a lot of unnecessary noise into the water.


49 posted on 11/11/2007 5:33:56 PM PST by SwedishConservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: SwedishConservative

Its too bad there isn’t a device that can generate electricity directly from radioactive material without any moving parts.


50 posted on 11/11/2007 6:15:03 PM PST by mamelukesabre
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson