FBI raids Liberty Dollar office-confiscates Ron Paul Dollars

http://www.rabidquill.com/ ^ | Nov 15, 2007 | "BJT"

[mnehring]

From the US Mint's website.

The National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code (NORFED) is producing and marketing gold and silver medallions that NORFED calls "Liberty Dollars." The United States Mint and the United States Department of Justice have received inquiries regarding the legality of these so-called "Liberty Dollar" medallions. The United States Mint urges consumers who are considering the purchase or use of these items to be aware that they are not genuine United States Mint bullion coins and they are not legal tender. These medallions are privately produced products and are not backed by, nor affiliated in any way with, the United States Government. Moreover, prosecutors with the Department of Justice have determined that the use of these gold and silver NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as circulating money is a Federal crime.

Consumers may find advertisements for these medallions confusing and should take note of several issues related to them.

First, the advertisements refer to the product as "real money" and "currency." These medallions might look like real money because they—

Bear the inscriptions, "Liberty," "Dollars," "Trust in God" (similar to "In God We Trust"), and "USA" (similar to "United States of America"), and an inscription purporting to denote the year of production; and

Depict images that are similar to United States coins, such as the torch on the reverses of the current dime coin, 1986 Statute of Liberty commemorative silver dollar and 1993 Bill of Rights commemorative half-dollar, and the Liberty Head designs on the obverses of United States gold coins from the mid-1800s to the early 1900s. However, despite their misleading appearance, NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions are not genuine United States Mint coins and they are not legal tender.

Second, the advertisements confusingly refer to NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as "legal" and "constitutional." However, under the Constitution ( Article I, section 8, clause 5 ), Congress has the exclusive power to coin money of the United States and to regulate its value. By statute ( 31 U.S.C. § 5112(a) ), Congress specifies the coins that the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized to mint and issue and requires the Secretary to carry out these duties at the United States Mint (31 U.S.C. § 5131). Accordingly, the United States Mint is the only entity in the United States with the lawful authority to mint and issue legal tender United States coins.

Under 18 U.S.C. § 486, it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law. According to the NORFED website, "Liberty merchants" are encouraged to accept NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions and offer them as change in sales transactions of merchandise or services. Further, NORFED tells "Liberty associates" that they can earn money by obtaining NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions at a discount and then can "spend [them] into circulation." Therefore, NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions are specifically intended to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with the circulating coinage of the United States. Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486.

http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/index.cfm?flash=yes&action=HotItems

[Turbopilot]

Not that anyone reads or pays attention to facts on these threads, but I think it's only fair to point out that Ron Paul has nothing to do with the Liberty Dollar other than their having appropriated his name for one of their products.

Ron Paul Dollar on www.libertydollar.org

"All this [the creation and sale of the Ron Paul Dollar] will be a big surprise to Dr. Paul. As Liberty Dollar's legal counsel pointed out, if Ron Paul's campaign was informed before the launch date, the Federal Election Commission could require profits in excess of $2,300 (the maximum individual donation allowed) to be distributed to the Republican Party! So the Ron Paul Dollar was created as an "independent contribution" and is distributed through the grassroots Volunteer Network.

(Emphasis added.)

Sorry for the interjection of reality. Please return to your Two Minutes Hate.

[wastedyears]

I would think it’s the store’s right to place a time limit on their gift cards.

[from occupied ga]

If you purchase an FYE gift card, you can’t use it at Target stores.

Ahh ok. Did the liberty dollar folks make the claim that these were legal tender? Again just like a gift card. You can only use it where it's accepted. I don't think that they claimed it to be legal tender. If they did then they deserve to be arrested primarily for stupidity

[Dead Corpse]

What does the term “negotiable” mean? If you don’t want to buy gold at $1000 an ounce coinage, then don’t. That isn’t fraud, although not a very good deal in my estimation.

[wideawake]

Then I guess the US Mint better go after every single freaking MC/VISA gift card ever made. Those are effectively private currencies as well.

(1) The US government has not sanctioned this individual for having a private currency.

(2) Gift cards are issued by entities that are backed by federally insured and regulated banks - not a single individual with a non-functioning website.

[Erik Latranyi]

I would prefer a commodity based currency, but do not confuse me with a "gold bug" or a Ron Paul supporter.

A commodity-based currency is subject to manipulation far easier than our currency is today.

Besides, we do not like China manipulating its currency values....why should we do it?

[mnehring]

Actually, it was pointed out many many posts up that there is no indication that Paul is affiliated with this and the debates have been on the validty of the dollars, not on Paul.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

One thing I hate doing is wasting my time and effort arguing with fanatics.

Unintentional irony: my very favorite kind. ;)

[Petronski]

The check you give your grocer is denominated in U.S. dollars.

[VRWCTexan]

Agreed!!!

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;......

[ejonesie22]

Those are backed buy purchase using US currency...

Nice try though...

[SJackson]

And their press release, my bold. They've got the disclaimers there, whether the bold means they're producing an additional currency is the type of thing courts decide.

Peace Dollar Battles War Dollar

EVANSVILLE, Ind., Oct. 15 /PRNewswire/ -- In an all-out battle, Liberty Dollar in Evansville, Indiana, has issued the 2008 Peace Dollar to "Stop the War." As if President Bush's unpopular war does not have enough problems, the Peace Dollar appears to offer an attractive way for the antiwar forces to gain strategic ground at a profit.

Liberty Dollar recently issued a "Presidential" Ron Paul Dollar in support of the Republican peace candidate. Now it asks peace-seeking Americans to start using the Peace Dollar and stop using the US War Dollar, as it finances the Iraq War.

The 2008 Peace Dollar is not government money and cannot be used to fund the war in Iraq. It is good for peace and bad for war. The government uses their printing presses to make money out of thin air to finance their war by diluting every American's purchasing power... hence higher gas and food prices.

Bernard von NotHaus, the fiery monetary architect of the Liberty Dollar, says that by accepting and spending Peace Dollars, peaceful people can force the government to "Stop the War" because the government will have less money to pay for it. He encourages peace-loving people to use a Peace Dollar the next time they spend money and "Give peace a chance."

The $10 Peace Dollar is a legal functioning currency dedicated to stop the war. As a private voluntary barter currency it can be used anywhere it is accepted. It is "real money" minted in pure silver and copper that exchanges dollar-for-dollar with the US war dollar. It is dedicated to establishing peace and bringing our boys home. The 2008 Peace Dollar has a face value of ten "Liberty Dollars" and contains one-half ounce of pure .999 fine silver. The $1 Copper Peace Dollar contains one ounce of pure copper.

Von NotHaus urges his fellow Americans who don't want war -- to stop using the war dollar. He encourages everyone to show his or her contempt for the war and vote for peace with Ron Paul and use the Peace Dollar.

Recently, Liberty Dollar sued the US Mint to compel the government to cease claiming voluntary use of the Liberty Dollar as barter is a federal crime. No Liberty Dollar, Ron Paul Dollar or Peace Dollar is claimed to be "legal tender."

2008 Peace Dollar image is available at:
www.LibertyDollar.org/graphics/peace_dollar.jpg For further info please contact: Peter Gogan -- Press Spokesman Email: pgogan@verizon.net Phone: 301.922.2673 Office: 888.421.6181 www.LibertyDollar.org Website: http://www.LibertyDollar.org/ Website: http://www.LibertyDollar.org/graphics/peace_dollar.jpg/

[from occupied ga]

I would think it’s the store’s right to place a time limit on their gift cards.

Which is why it's a bad idea to buy them unless you get something extra in the deal. One of the local restaurants was selling $100 gift cards for $90. (Kind of like what post 108 describes) In that case it might be a good idea to get one.

[Erik Latranyi]

Liberty Dollar recently issued a "Presidential" Ron Paul Dollar in support of the Republican peace candidate. Now it asks peace-seeking Americans to start using the Peace Dollar and stop using the US War Dollar, as it finances the Iraq War.

This is a press release from Liberty Dollar in Evansville. It clearly encourages the substitution of one currency for the US standard currency.

That is illegal. Goodbye.

[SwankyC]

Article I Section 8.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

As I said, the “Liberty Dollar” movement, or cult, or whatever you want to call it, long predates RPs’ presidential aspirations, and I think that the LD folks are co-opting RPs’ widely known views against the Fed and fiat currency. However, I seriously doubt that RP would allow his image to be used unless there was some sort of tacit consent on RP’s part.

And the paper currency is of course grossly suspect.

[Trajan88]

auStain... the land of the burnt orange... go with God's country currency... Aggie Bucks ;-)

Texas A&M Fighting Farmers... on T+1 beat the HELL outta t.u.

[wastedyears]

Gift cards are paid with legal US tender.

[Petronski]

"All this [the creation and sale of the Ron Paul Dollar] will be a big surprise to Dr. Paul. As Liberty Dollar's legal counsel pointed out, if Ron Paul's campaign was informed before the launch date, the Federal Election Commission could require profits in excess of $2,300 (the maximum individual donation allowed) to be distributed to the Republican Party! So the Ron Paul Dollar was created as an "independent contribution" and is distributed through the grassroots Volunteer Network.

I don't see a denial that L.Ron knew in advance. I don't see a cease-and-desist letter regarding L.Ron's name and likeness. All I see is an attempt to establish plausible deniability.