FBI raids Liberty Dollar office-confiscates Ron Paul Dollars

http://www.rabidquill.com/ ^ | Nov 15, 2007 | "BJT"

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

Frontal Assault on Freedom: FBI Raids Liberty Dollar Posted by BJT on Nov 15, 2007 Read this email closely. I just got it this morning. Those of you who consider the gold standard a quaint anachronism, pay extra close attention. If Ron Paul supporters, gold standard advocates and the Liberty Dollar were nothing but harmless kooks, why would the FBI raid their offices when no crime was ever committed? This is a currency competing with the USD, yes, but they never, but never make the claim that it is legal tender or anything other than what it is: private currency. And private currencies are numerous in the USA.

No. This raid happened because the Liberty Dollar, the second most popular currency in the country, threatens to usurp the entrenched power of the Fed’s Almighty Dollar. People can see the buying power of the greenback eroding, and they will choose something else if it is available, and the Liberty Dollar is ready and waiting. And that’s why the government must resort to force in order to protect its stranglehold on the economy.

From Liberty Dollar Headquarters: Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.

I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled… if ever… it now all depends on our actions.

Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.

Please forward this important Alert… so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.

Bernard von NotHaus

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

I am NOT a RP supporter. However, I find this a chilling development and a possible prelude to PM confiscation. Yeah, yeah, Bernard von NotHaus.

[samtheman]

I’m not an RP supporter either. But I definitely think you have the best screen name in FR.

[Red Badger]

Just what is a “Liberty Dollar”?.............

[Badeye]

I want to know why the raid took place, and what the warrant specified before drawing any conclusions.

And most in this forum know clearly I’m not a Ron Paul supporter, either.

[neodad]

I’m not an RP supporter either. But I definitely think you have the best screen name in FR.

I'm kind of partial to "The Real Fifi" myself.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

Thank you!! I made it up, or at least I thought I made it up, but it turns out that it is/was the name of a very obscure radio show originating from a small college in Vermont, IIRC.

[OldCorps]

bump

[50mm]

I want to know why the raid took place, and what the warrant specified before drawing any conclusions.

I agree. First reports are frequently erroneous. There's no reason, short of a gag order, that Paul can't publish the warrant.

[wideawake]

Your link directs to a different article.

Is there some external link that proves this extremely convenient excuse for not delivering merchandise that has already been paid for?

[mysterio]

FBI pulled down their site as well : link

Waiting to see how many posters are AOK with this theft of private property by our government.

[mysterio]

Edit : home page is still up, catalog is down. So the site is up.

[Moonman62]

Why do I get the feeling that this is about fraud, not minting a legal alternate currency?

[Red Badger]

http://sev.prnewswire.com/banking-financial-services/20071015/CLM15215102007-1.html

[lormand]

Prawned Paul Ping

"Liberty Dollar recently issued a "Presidential" Ron Paul Dollar in support of the Republican peace candidate. Now it asks peace-seeking Americans to start using the Peace Dollar and stop using the US War Dollar, as it finances the Iraq War."

This sounds like complete insanity to me. "Peace Dollar"?

These traitors need to be marched across the DMZ into North Korea.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

http://sev.prnewswire.com/banking-financial-services/20071015/CLM15215102007-1.html

As I understand it, the LD is a silver round (= 1 troy oz silver) which is intended as a private currency fashioned after the coinage act of 1792/3 (para: Congress shall make no coin not composed of gold or silver) It is not intended to “compete” with Federal Reserve Notes. Legally, there are bunch of considerations wrt a: calling a disk of metal a “coin” (hence, generic silver rounds are called “rounds”) b: stamping anything refering to “dollars” on such an item; and c: attempting to use such an item for legal tender. I’m not sufficiently studied in the legal particulars to state all the rules and regs on this topic. I find this development alarming because AFAIK, this organization has broken no laws.

IIRC, the “Liberty Dollar” and its organization existed before and independently of RP’s presidential aspirations, but RP is on record as being against the existence of the Federal Reserve and so it seems a maergin of interest may have occurred.

[mysterio]

From 2006 :

"'Liberty Dollars' Can Buy Users A Prison Term, U.S. Mint Warns

By Elizabeth Williamson Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, October 10, 2006; Page A19

Once upon a time, a "monetary architect" named Bernard von NotHaus decided to make his own money.

He put a beautiful Lady Liberty and a majestic flaming torch on the silver and gold coins, and he named them "Liberty Dollars." On his Web site, http://www.libertydollar.org , he said: "It is fun to use REAL money. Liberty Dollars are a proven and profitable currency that protects and grows the purchasing power of your money!"

True story, phony money. So says the U.S. Mint, which would like to remind Liberty Dollar users that since the United States already has its own currency, the only thing Liberty Dollars buy in these parts is a jail term.

Liberty Dollars were coined by von NotHaus and an Evansville, Ind.-based group called Norfed, which stands for (sort of) the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code. In the late 1990s, the group began hawking its money as a hedge against inflation, and as a way to compete with the Fed. Von NotHaus makes the pitch online, using a raft of statistics and graphs that he says show the greenback is well nigh worthless."

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

What are Ron Paul dollars backed by? The full faith and credit of Ron Paul?

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

I do not rule out that (fraud) possibility.

[mnehring]

....the Liberty Dollar, the second most popular currency in the country...
Little known fact, but postage is considered legal currency, thus, is actually the second most popular currency.

[darkwing104]

Waiting to see how many posters are AOK with this theft of private property by our government.

There has to be a lot more to this story...

[Red Badger]

I just goooogled it and from what I can see, it's a lot like the John Galt Dollar in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. .........

[lormand]

"Waiting to see how many posters are AOK with this theft of private property by our government."

Or, wait until you see how many posters believe the first thing they hear.

[Red Badger]

Silver & gold.........

[kevkrom]

First reports are frequently erroneous.

First reports from the "aggrieved" party are almost always erroneous, or at least missing key information.

[mnehring]

Defrauding people with a fake currency? Sounds like a legit reason to me.

[mosaicwolf]

Ummmmm......maybe that is why Gold is down $20.00 today. :-)

[Tijeras_Slim]

Why it’s the the second most popular currency in the country!

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

Nope, they are bullion metal, $1 rounds/coins are 1 tr oz pure copper, the $10 (now $20) coins are 1 tr oz .999 silver.

[rineaux]

There is a currency in use in Austin, Texas that shops accept as legal tender to make purchases of food, gas and some merchandise. It is suppose to be gaining some ground. Question is, will the FBI raid this place as well?

[Red Badger]

After doing a little “research”, I can see why. Real gold and silver and platinum backed notes and solid metal coins.................

[jrooney]

Only freakin morons think it is okay for any nut group to print their own currency for circulation. I am glad these peaceniks have had their currency taken and they are being monitored.

[mnehring]

Ahh, the infamous Republic of Texas dollars. That is a scam started by the ‘interim president’ of the Republic a few years ago. They may not have been stopped yet because they are only used by a few kooks for trading and not sold as a fake legal tender on a national level.

[untenured]

So says the U.S. Mint, which would like to remind Liberty Dollar users that since the United States already has its own currency, the only thing Liberty Dollars buy in these parts is a jail term.

If this is true (a huge if, at this point), I don't understand why. People in a lot of towns (Ithaca NY, for one) commonly introduce paper notes that can to be used as money within the town, to encourage people to shop locally. Is that illegal too?

[Dead Corpse]

Fake? Actual gold/silver coinage and warehouse receipts are "fake"?

Don't let your hatred of all things Ron Paul completely bleed out your intelligence.

[Petronski]

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

[cripplecreek]

Nuthin

[WackySam]

I guess as long as you just print paper money back by nothing you’re ok.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/23/eveningnews/main2843772.shtml

[McGruff]

Is this the Friday comedy thread? I ask because today is only Thursday.

[P8riot]

http://www.libertydollar.org/

[mnehring]

Not everything they were selling were gold/silver coinage. They were also issuing 'paper' bills.

As someone noted earlier, they've taken their store down.

[lormand]

"There is a currency in use in Austin, Texas that shops accept as legal tender to make purchases of food, gas and some merchandise. It is suppose to be gaining some ground."

I work in Austin. Can you direct me to where these places are, and what they accept as currency?

[50mm]

That’s why I want to see the entire warrant published.

[Dead Corpse]

Nope. That was the Liberty Dollars. There was a RoT dollar for a while, but it wasn’t backed by anything. Even some of the HEB’s in Texas took Liberty Dollars.

[KC Burke]

the Ron Paul "dollar" looks like this:

I can imagine what the Hillary Dollar will look like: .

[Dead Corpse]

Those are the aforementioned warehouse receipts. Supposedly, you could, at any time, exchange the paper bills for face value of the precious metal listed on the bill.

[rineaux]

I recall reading an article about the bershare some time ago. Thanks for the reminder.

[from occupied ga]

Why do I get the feeling that this is about fraud, not minting a legal alternate currency?

Probably for the same reason you felt that the killing of David Koresh's followers by the FBI was about drugs and child abuse

[lormand]

Ron Paul 08’ - all the appearances of a dangerous cult.

[AppyPappy]

The gold standard for Ron Paul is silver.

[Dead Corpse]

Actually, considering their antiestablishmentarian view point, they would be highly unlike to put out coinage with an avowed socialists likeness on it.