Marine (DI-San Diego) Instructor Gets 6 Months in Brig

News 8 ^ | 15 NOV 2007 | Not Identified

[river rat]

"That is a dumb and stupid statement!"

The first few weeks of Marine Corp Boot Camp have always been periods of high levels of mental stress and physical "exertion".

Trash can diving would have been a MINOR exercise in the 60's....

Thousands of Former Marines are alive today as a result of that "training"....

But - seeing you're Air Force, your reaction from a different perspective is not unexpected.

[org.whodat]

Wrong, it is not the sixties and it is a proven fact that once a retired trainer steps over the line he doesn’t know where to stop. Therefore it is zero tolerance in all branches of service.

[org.whodat]

Dumbasses make them look bad and tarnish their image.

Good post, some of the dumbass posters here cannot comprehend that. Guess they have forgot the dumb-ass marine DI who marched all those men in the swamp and got them killed.

[Griddlee]

I didn’t need any trash can diving training when I was a doggie in the Korean War.

I knew instinctively to dive down low when I came under fire.

I guess Marines have to be taught such things.

Just kidding.

[A.A. Cunningham]

'Glass spent two tours in Iraq as a dog handler before attending drill instructor school, from which he graduated with honors. The abuses occurred shortly after his graduation, during his first two months as a drill instructor. They came to light only after he beat a 19-year-old over the head with a tent pole because the recruit could not remember the combination to his foot locker.

Wonder how Glass managed to make it through the psych eval. Going off the deep end like that so early in his tour is bizarre. Several somebodies in DI school maybe let one slip through the crack that they shouldn't have. I'd bet that if you could pour over his jacket from DI school you'd find signs that this was a possibility.

'Of four drill instructors assigned to the 40-man platoon, Glass was the least experienced and the so-called "kill hat," Marine slang for the one assigned to mete out punishment. All four were relieved of duty when the abuse allegations surfaced.'

Sounds like too many chiefs, not enough Indians.

'The two most experienced face criminal charges, and the "third hat" was reduced from sergeant to corporal and is no longer a drill instructor. Two officers and two noncommissioned officers with supervisory responsibility for the four drill instructors were relieved of duty and reassigned.'

It would be interesting to find out what Battalion this took place in. Sounds like the Series Commander, Assistant Series Commander and Series Gunny dropped the ball. Although Salinas is apparently looking to make examples of a lot of DIs.

Over the past year, “There always seems to be four or five drill instructors on the docket,” said a Marine officer familiar with the Glass case.

“Some of it is because Brig. Gen. Angela Salinas is looking for abuse and some of it is because . . . there is more abuse,” said the officer, who asked not to be named for fear of reprisals by superiors.

[river rat]

I know you were — and enjoyed the joke..

Folks simply wouldn’t believe what transpired at Parris Island in the early 60’s...

I remain convinced those D.I.s hammered discipline and confidence into a lot of young men who are alive today simply because of their experience at Parris Island......and a lot of the enemy aren’t.

The first 4 weeks were beyond belief - and indescribable.
Wouldn’t have given up the experience for anything, nor would I repeat it for anything......
Of course since I’m approaching 70, there is no way I would survive....

[eldoradude]

I guess it's all how it's perceived. If you 've been in the mud and sand and sh&t, you know why it's essential to disabuse some recruits out of their complacent attitudes.

The regulations state that DIs are not to verbally abuse recruits either...not supposed to call someone a 'pussy' or worse.

One of my DIs at MCRD was a filipino built like a fireplug. He took me into the whiskey locker to discuss my lack of urgency in following his orders. I got a couple shots in but he basically took me to school and kicked my ass...and I learned firsthand from that session how essential it was to ramp up my reaction time. Any one of the other DIs would have done exactly the same thing...and all would have been court-martialed just like Sgt. Glass was if I had complained. This has gone on for decades, and it shows the integrity of almost all Marines that so few of these types of cases are prosecuted.

I am convinced to the core that without that transformation I would not be here posting on FR today....there would some Arab posting on El-jizzrag instead.

Semper Fi and God Bless the other branches of service as well.

[napscoordinator]

Ridiculous.Today’s “abuse” was SOP 40 years ago in all service branches.

Let’s see. 40 years ago we lost 37,000 personnel and they went through this type of training. Today we have lost 3,800 personnel with the new training. Which one works more effectively? Not too difficult to figure it out.

[river rat]

Even more ridiculous is your comparison of the war in Vietnam and the forces faced there and the war in the Middle East and the forces faced there..

Incomparable also - is the strategy and tactics involved..

Incomparable too - is the combination of open desert and urban areas versus a trackless three canopy jungle where rarely was an armored vehicle available to move from point A to point B....under 24/7 air cover.....

Also - we lost over 58,000 Killed, (NOT 37,000 as you stated) including nearly 11,000 from NON hostile causes.

The Communists of Vietnam have recently admitted that the hard core NVA lost approx. 800,000 KIA, 300,000 MIA and 600,000 WIA.
Communist civilians supporting the Communist effort suffered losses in the unconfirmed MILLIONS....

I doubt the enemy killed in the Middle East comes anywhere near those numbers...

Hell - we had single platoon firefights in Vietnam that killed more enemy in a single evening than is killed by nearly 200,000 troops in the Middle East in a month.

CLEARLY — they are different wars where hardly any valid comparisons can be drawn other than the fact we probably don’t deserve the men who serve us...

Any attempt to look at the losses and draw any conclusion on the effectiveness of training is worse than ludicrous...

[Retain Mike]

Evidently its really hard for some people. Todays Marines never encounter anything remotely approaching Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal or Peleliu. Todays Marines have follow on schools after basic, and that is the place for physical abuse. In basic they should encounter mental stress, sleep deprevation and physical stress sufficient to result in a variety of temporary injuries. In WW II Marines joined rifle platoons after basic, but hitting recruits was never authorized, even in WW II.

[Lancey Howard]

Let’s see. 40 years ago we lost 37,000 personnel and they went through this type of training. Today we have lost 3,800 personnel with the new training. Which one works more effectively? Not too difficult to figure it out.

That's ridiculous.

[napscoordinator]

Funny how you say ridiculous when the truth actually hurts.

[napscoordinator]

Any attempt to look at the losses and draw any conclusion on the effectiveness of training is worse than ludicrous...

People compare the numbers all the time here, but I guess only when beneficial to get there point across.

[eldoradude]

Let’s see. 40 years ago we lost 37,000 personnel and they went through this type of training. Today we have lost 3,800 personnel with the new training. Which one works more effectively? Not too difficult to figure it out.

Any attempt to look at the losses and draw any conclusion on the effectiveness of training is worse than ludicrous...

I believe you have contradicted yourself.

People compare the numbers all the time here, but I guess only when beneficial to get there point across.

Also, there = their.

[Doohickey]

...and you may be able to come back

Not with the Big Chicken Dinner he's not.

[eldoradude]

Or did you intend to put your first sentence in italics to indicate you were quoting river rat?

[LuxMaker]

In my basic we had 2 DIs fighting each other and they were removed. I am not sure where they went to. Also we had one DI who said not to worry and complain about our uniform issue, that it would be the right size, and I almost lost a foot and had to be recycled because of that BS. There are some very incompetent DIs and some very competent ones. Some of them definitely do not need to be there.

[river rat]

"People compare the numbers all the time here, but I guess only when beneficial to get there point across."

Perhaps....but you attempted to judge the effectiveness of training by comparing numbers of KIA between two very different scenarios...

That was LUDICROUS.

[napscoordinator]

Yes I copied Riverrat. I can’t bold, italic or even post pictures somehow. I envy those of you that can. I have been here over two years and still am not able to do this.

[eldoradude]

I sent you a freepmail with a couple of tags you can use - pretty much all I ever need here.