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To: bobby.223

Vicarious self defense does not extend to property, but this is a TEXAS grand jury. I find it hard to believe he will be indicted. It shades the line, but...


8 posted on 11/16/2007 5:10:42 PM PST by Wally_Kalbacken (Seldom right but never in doubt)
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To: Wally_Kalbacken

I think he is gonna be in deep sh$t over this. I hope not. and my agreement of a “bad shoot” is from the standpoint of what the courts are gonna do to this guy. I’m happy as hell 2 POS like these were shot.


17 posted on 11/16/2007 5:15:24 PM PST by bobby.223
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To: Wally_Kalbacken
Vicarious self defense does not extend to property

It does in Texas where this took place.

From the Texas Penal Code concerning the use of deadly force to protect property:

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property


18 posted on 11/16/2007 5:15:24 PM PST by FreedomCalls (Texas: "We close at five.")
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To: Wally_Kalbacken
Vicarious self defense does not extend to property,

Not in Florida maybe. Deadly force to protect private property is allowed in Texas. It applies to your nieghbors property if he asked you to watch it for him. Don't assume all state laws are the same.

38 posted on 11/16/2007 5:36:44 PM PST by chesty_puller (70-73 USMC VietNam 75-79 US Army Wash DC....VietNam was safer.)
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To: Wally_Kalbacken

Not sure what you are meaning by “Vicarious self defense”, but the Castel Doctrine in effect since last September DOES apply to one’s property in TEXAS.

Sounds like these wetbacks decided to come into the old man’s yard at which point he shot to SOBs. Sounds like Castle Doctrine is covered!!

Just like car jacking, the sooner all these klinton supports get the message that it might cost them their life, the sooner lots of these breakin will cease as well.


79 posted on 11/16/2007 6:23:24 PM PST by dusttoyou (FredHead from the git go)
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To: Wally_Kalbacken
Vicarious self defense does not extend to property,

Not quite sure what you mean by "Vicarious", he was there after all, but you can use deadly force to protect property in Texas. See my post above with the relevant portion of the Texas Penal Code.

163 posted on 11/16/2007 9:25:09 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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