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CNN: Will Rudy Be ‘Swiftboated’?
NewsBusters.org ^ | 11/21/2007 | Matthew Balan

Posted on 11/21/2007 8:22:43 PM PST by Pyro7480

A report on Tuesday’s "The Situation Room," which highlighted the anti-Giuliani campaign of some family members of firefighters killed on 9/11, also tried to throw some retrospective doubt on the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" who opposed John Kerry in 2004. CNN correspondent Deborah Feyerick proposed the following question about the campaign: "is this another 'Swift Boat' situation, in which unsubstantiated attacks against John Kerry's service in Vietnam, scuttled his presidential candidacy. These families say no."

In addition to this question, CNN played two sound bites, one from Sally Reganhard, a prominent member of this campaign, and the other from a Baruch College professor, which reenforced the "unsubstantiated" label used by CNN. Reganhard indirectly accused the "Swift Boat" veterans of using lies. "The difference between the 'Swift Boating' and this is that everything that we are saying is the truth." Also, a chyron during the report proclaimed that "9/11 Families Challenge Giuliani: Efforts Compared to ‘Swiftboating.’"

Host Wolf Blitzer introduced the report, which aired at the bottom of the 5 pm hour, by immediately bringing up the "Swift Boat" comparison. "It's the cornerstone of Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign, the 9/11 terror attacks. But now, an unlikely group is trying to undermine that with an effort that some are comparing to the 'Swift Boat' campaign against John Kerry." Neither Blitzer nor Feyerick mention who is making this comparison.

One thing that is mentioned is the campaign’s connection to the International Association of Firefighters, a union who endorsed John Kerry in 2004. As Feyerick put it, "over the summer, these firefighter families appeared in a scathing anti-Giuliani video made by the International Association of Firefighters." The union’s president, Harold A. Schaitberger, started a close relationship with Kerry early during his 2004 campaign. In August 2007, a CNN report quoted Kerry as saying, "I still keep a picture at home of Harold Schaitberger… standing by my side the night we won the New Hampshire primary."

Immediately after the three-minute report, Blitzer conducted a four-and-a-half minute interview of Jim Riches, a deputy chief for the Fire Department of New York City who is a member of the family members’ campaign against Giuliani. After a commercial break, Blitzer then interviewed Howard Safir, a former NYC fire and police commissioner and Giuliani supporter who accused the members of the campaign of "turning the terrorist attacks of September 11th into a political football."

The full transcript of the report from Tuesday’s "The Situation Room:"

WOLF BLITZER: It's the cornerstone of Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign, the 9/11 terror attacks. But now, an unlikely group is trying to undermine that with an effort that some are comparing to the 'Swift Boat' campaign against John Kerry. CNN's Deborah Feyerick is joining us now. She's watching all this unfold. So, who's challenging, Deb, Rudy Giuliani's 9/11 credentials?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this is not a new group. In fact, the faces, to many New Yorkers, are familiar. These are people who have repeatedly criticized Rudy Giuliani's handling of 9/11 and all the events before and after that day. The big question - can this small group gain momentum and, if so, what does that mean to the mayor's candidacy?

FEYERICK (voice-over): This is the image many Americans have of Rudy Giuliani -- the New York City mayor covered in dust moments after the World Trade Center towers collapsed. It is an image he has evoked in his run for the White House to spotlight his leadership on that tragic day. But Sally Regenhard and others are challenging that image.

SALLY REGENHARD, MOTHER OF 9/11 FIREFIGHTER: Rudy Giuliani is no hero of 9/11.

FEYERICK: Regenhard's son was one of 343 New York City firefighters to die when the towers fell. She is part of a small, determined group of firefighter families taking on the former mayor.

REGENHARD: We want to give people the opportunity to hear the true story and to make their own decisions.

FEYERICK: On Monday, the group traveled to New Hampshire, a crucial state where Mr. Giuliani recently began running these ads.

RUDY GIULIANI, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe I have been tested in a way in which the American people can look to me. They're not going to find perfection, but they're going to find somebody who's dealt with crisis.

FEYERICK: The families told a handful of people about some of the fire department radios that didn't work on 9/11, about the emergency command center to coordinate a response that, instead, literally collapsed, and about the lack of respirators provided to firefighters searching for colleagues in the toxic rubble.

Political scientist, Doug Muzzio says these issues are not new, at least not to New Yorkers.

DOUG MUZZIO, BARUCH COLLEGE: There is a lot of hyperbole in what Rudy Giuliani says about what he did prior to 9/11, on 9/11, and after 9/11. But the kernel of truth is that Rudy Giuliani had his finest hour on 9/11.

FEYERICK: The Giuliani campaign cited news reports praising Giuliani's efforts on behalf of firefighters, and touting the city's preparedness. A former fire commissioner, speaking on Giuliani's behalf, accused Regenhard's group of quote, 'turning the terrorist attacks of September 11th into a political football.' The question now -- is this another 'Swift Boat' situation, in which unsubstantiated attacks against John Kerry's service in Vietnam, scuttled his presidential candidacy. These families say no.

REGENHARD: The difference between the 'Swift Boating' and this is that everything that we are saying is the truth.

FEYERICK (on-camera): Now, over the summer, these firefighter families appeared in a scathing anti-Giuliani video made by the International Association of Firefighters. Giuliani's representative called the group highly partisan. It is endorsing Democrat Chris Dodd, but says it was not part of this particular New Hampshire trip. Still, that firefighters' union is meeting after Thanksgiving to consider a much larger campaign against the former mayor. Wolf?

BLITZER: Deb Feyerick in New York, thanks very much.

—Matthew Balan is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cnn; giuliani; rudy; swiftboat
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MSM rewriting history about Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
1 posted on 11/21/2007 8:22:44 PM PST by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480
The victims of 911 know Rudy is a coward. New York's "first responders" have no respect for Rudy. None of this is news.

Our troops deserve a strong Commander in Chief that they can respect. I could never ask our troops to salute Rudy Giuliani. I can't even imagine that.

2 posted on 11/21/2007 8:27:38 PM PST by tear gas (Because of the 22nd Amendment, we are losing President. Bush. Can we afford to lose him now?)
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To: Pyro7480

Rudy sure fits a democrat profile!

IT is for the murder of unborn babies!
IT is a big gun control nut!
IT covered for the invaders in ITS city!
IT surrounds ITself with queers and thugs!

Why does IT have an R by ITS name instead of a D?


3 posted on 11/21/2007 8:30:49 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Rudy and Romney, For reply, send a self-abused stomped elephant to the DNC.)
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To: Pyro7480

“The difference between the ‘Swift Boating’ and this is that everything that we are saying is the truth.”

Liberals keep repeating it enough, it becomes truth to them.


4 posted on 11/21/2007 8:35:46 PM PST by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: Pyro7480

“is this another ‘Swift Boat’ situation, in which unsubstantiated attacks against John Kerry’s service in Vietnam, scuttled his presidential candidacy. These families say no.”

This twit never read the book or else she came at it from a virulent anti Pubbie POV. 220 or so substantiating vs. about 13 defenders is pretty convincing in my book, especially considering that those substantiating the allegations include Admirals, Captains, Commanders and other career officers and NCO’s.

Kerry is obviously guilty of the allegations and this twit is guilty of being a tool.


5 posted on 11/21/2007 8:36:14 PM PST by Rembrandt (We would have won Viet Nam w/o Dim interference.)
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To: Pyro7480

He cannot be “swift Boated” unless he has a detrimental truth he is hiding from the public to get himself elected, like John ‘F’raud Kerry did.


6 posted on 11/21/2007 8:37:22 PM PST by DakotaRed (Liberals don't rattle sabers, they wave white flags)
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To: tear gas

1. People who say the Swiftboaters were not truthful have no credability with me.

2. I admire Rudy for what he did before 911, and regard what he accomplished after 911 to be difficult to grade.

3. Duncan Hunter is the one who is dead nuts on on all of the issues.

Why do I always find myself supporting the ones who can’t get traction?


7 posted on 11/21/2007 8:40:15 PM PST by chopperman
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

B U M P


8 posted on 11/21/2007 8:40:25 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: DakotaRed
He cannot be “swift Boated” unless he has a detrimental truth he is hiding from the public to get himself elected,

Rudy is a pervert.

10 posted on 11/21/2007 8:41:01 PM PST by tear gas (Because of the 22nd Amendment, we are losing President. Bush. Can we afford to lose him now?)
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To: Pyro7480; OAKC0N; time4good; Mike32; genxer; PatriotEdition; Simul iustus et peccator; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

I’m pro-choice. I’m pro-gay rights, Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. “No, I have not supported that, and I don’t see my position on that changing,” he responded. Source: CNN.com, “Inside Politics” Dec 2, 1999 http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Rudy_Giuliani_Abortion.htm

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES (November 14, 2006)

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: I'm pro- choice. I'm pro-gay rights.

KING: Giuliani supports a woman's right to an abortion, and back in 1999, he opposed a federal ban on late-term abortions.

GIULIANI: No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing.

KING: Immigration could be another presidential landmine. Back in 1996, Mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants.

JEFFREY: He took the side of illegal immigrants in New York City against the Republican Congress.

KING: Giuliani opposes same-sex marriage but as mayor, he supported civil unions and extending health and other benefits to gay couples. He also supported the assault weapons ban and other gun control measures opposed by the National Rifle Association.

GIULIANI: I'm in favor of gun control. I'm pro-choice.

Republican Big-Wigs Support Pro-Abortion Event in NY

Pro-abortion Governor George Pataki and New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who also supports unrestricted abortion, are co-chairs of the 2000 Choice Award Presentation to be held on May 30 at the St. Regis Hotel in New York City. The event is sponsored by the Republican Pro-Choice Coalition, a group that is campaigning for the removal of the pro-life plank from the Republican National Platform.


http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200503010743.asp

While he was the “Republican Mayor” of New York City he appointed more than 60 men and women to the Civil, Criminal, and Family Court benchs. In all of those judicial appointment only two were Republican.

All of his other judical appointments were either registered Liberals or registered Democrats. As the “Republican Mayor” he had appointment power over more than 70 full commissioners in more than 50 City agencies, yet at no time during his administration did REPUBLICANS account for more than 10% of those appointments.

He even appointed Chuck Schumers wife as the City’s Department of Transportation Commissioner.


________________________________________________________________
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9054.html

“And even as we grieve for those who lost their lives, and our hearts and prayers go out to the victims and their loved ones, we may be able to find some sort of meaning in this tragedy by using it as a catalyst to revive national gun control efforts.”
Rudolph Giuliani

At the first Republican debate in May, Giuliani was alone among the GOP candidates in offering a less-than-robust affirmation when asked whether it would be a good day if the Supreme Court overturned the Roe v. Wade ruling.

"It would be OK," Giuliani said. "It would be OK to repeal it."

But, he added: "It would be OK also if a strict constructionist viewed it as precedent" and kept the law intact.


11 posted on 11/21/2007 8:41:10 PM PST by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: Pyro7480
MSM rewriting history about Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

Yes, this is an interesting play that has, unfortunately, been run before by the left/MSM.

The sequence goes like this:

Someone, like the Swifties, brings up an inconvenient argument that interferes with the template, or story line, the left/MSM is selling.

Step 1: ignore them. If that doesn't work:
Step 2: malign them. There are several modes to this one; guilt by association, paint them as extremists, find one kook among them and make him/her the face of the whole organization, etc. If that doesn't work:
Step 3: muddy the waters. Intentionally mis-state their key argument (examples, calling the "Contract With America" the "Contract On America," referring to illegal aliens as "immigrants" and characterizing anti-illegal-immigrant groups as "anti-immigrant groups," etc.). If this doesn't work:
Step 4: find someone among the GOP or right-wing who is willing to bad mouth the group publicly. This person may be a has-been who wants publicity, a flake or borderline-mentally-disordered or senile member of the GOP, who can be pumped up into a spokesman for the mainstream. If this doesn't work:

Well, you get the idea. I think there are some more tricks they try to pull, like looking into the group's funding sources and seeing if they can come up with something embarrassing; you may be able to think of others.

If all these don't work, and (like the Swifties) the group succeeds in it's goals and really hurts the "cause," the agenda, well... the story's not over.

Then the left/MSM embarks on a long-term strategy to (a) undercut the original argument of the group, and (b) try to confuse the group's original goals and mission with that of other, less savory groups. The goal here is, again, to muddy the waters with younger people as they come of age, making sure that the original group (the Swifties, in this case) does not become a heroic model for future activism. This effort may go on for decades (in the case of Joe McCarthy, the Rosenberg matter, and the Alger Hiss matter, the effort has gone on for half a century or more).

That's what we're seeing here. It used to work, in the age of the concentrated power of the one-way MSM. In the modern era, I'm not so sure. There are a lot more ways for the truth to get out now, and it's much harder for the left to choke the baby in the crib, so to speak.

(steely)

12 posted on 11/21/2007 8:41:38 PM PST by Steely Tom (Steely's First Law of the Main Stream Media: if it doesn't advance the agenda, it's not news.)
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To: narses

Rudy Guiliani has marched in lockstep with liberals on affirmative action, gay rights, gay marriage, gun control, school prayer, tuition tax credits, liberal immigration policies, and he's reinforced it, time and time again. Just about everytime Rudy opens his mouth, offensive liberal words come pouring out. As Mayor, Rudy put liberals in high-paid city jobs, an indication what a Rudy WH would look like. Here then is Rudy in his own words:

--The New York State Liberal Party on its endorsement of Rudy Giuliani for Mayor: "When the Liberal Party Policy Committee reviewed a list of key social issues of deep concern to progressive New Yorkers, we found that Rudy Giuliani agreed with the Liberal Party's stance on a majority of such issues. He agreed with the Liberal Party's views on affirmative action, gay rights, gun control, school prayer and tuition tax credits. As Mayor, Rudy Giuliani would uphold the Constitutional and legal rights to abortion." N.Y.S. Liberal Party Endorsement Statement of Candidate Giuliani for Mayor of New York City April 8, 1989

--On the Republican Party: "Mr. Rockefeller represented 'a tradition in the Republican Party' I've worked hard to re-kindle - the Rockefeller, Javits, Lefkowitz tradition." Rudy Giuliani told the New York Times July 9, 1992

--Village Voice Interview with Guiliani: He was asked: "What kind of Republican Is [Giuliani]? A Reagan Republican?" Giuliani pauses before answering: "I'm a Republican." Village Voice January 24, 1989

--On Attending 1996 Republican Convention: Rudy expressed his pleasure when he wasn't invited to the Republican National Convention in San Diego. "If I take three or four days off from city business, I want to do it for a substantive purpose. It didn't seem to me any substantive purpose could be served by going to the Republican convention." said Rudy. Rudy! An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, Page 459, by Wayne Barrett

--On Barry Goldwater: Giuliani described John Kennedy as "great and brilliant. Barry Godwater as an "incompetent, confused and sometimes idiotic man." New York Daily News, May 13, 1997

--On President Bill Clinton: Shortly before his last-minute endorsement of Bob Dole in the 1996 presidential election, Giuliani told the Post's Jack Newfield that "most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." Rudy! An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, Wayne Barrett.

--The Daily News quoted Giuliani as saying March 1996: "Whether you talk about President Clinon, Senator Dole.... The country would be in very good hands in the hands of any of that group." An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, Wayne Barrett.
The Real Rudy Giuliani:

From Human Events:

Rudy's Strong Pro-Abortion Stance

As these comments from a 1989 conversation with Phil Donahue show, Rudy Giuliani is staunchly in favor of abortion:

"I've said that I'll uphold a woman's right of choice, that I will fund abortion so that a poor woman is not deprived of a right that others can exercise, and that I would oppose going back to a day in which abortions were illegal.

I do that in spite of my own personal reservations. I have a daughter now; if a close relative or a daughter were pregnant, I would give my personal advice, my religious and moral views ...

Donahue: Which would be to continue the pregnancy.

Giuliani: Which would be that I would help her with taking care of the baby. But if the ultimate choice of the woman - my daughter or any other woman - would be that in this particular circumstance [if she had] to have an abortion, I'd support that. I'd give my daughter the money for it."

Worse yet, Giuliani even supports partial birth abortion:

"I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-gay rights,Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing," he responded." -- CNN.com, "Inside Politics" Dec 2, 1999

It's bad enough that Rudy is so adamantly pro-abortion, but consider what that could mean when it comes time to select Supreme Court Justices. Does the description of Giuliani that you've just read make you think he's going to select an originalist like Clarence Thomas, who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade -- or does it make you think he would prefer justices like Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy who'd leave Roe v. Wade in place?

Rudy's abortion stance is bad news for conservatives who are pro-life or who are concerned about getting originalist judges on the Supreme Court.

An Anti-Second Amendment Candidate

In the last couple of election cycles, 2nd Amendment issues have moved to the back burner mainly because even Democratic candidates have learned that being tagged with the "gun grabber" label is political poison.

Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani is a proponent of gun control who supported the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapon Ban.

Do Republicans really want to abandon their strong 2nd Amendment stance by selecting a pro-gun control nominee?

Soft on Gay Marriage

Other than tax cuts, the biggest domestic issue of the 2004 election was President Bush's support of a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as being between a man and a woman. Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani has taken a "Kerryesque" position on gay marriage.

Although Rudy, like John Kerry, has said that marriage should remain between a man and a woman, he also supports civil unions, "marched in gay-pride parades" ...dressed up in drag on national television for a skit on Saturday Night Live (and moved in with a) wealthy gay couple" after his divorce. He also very vocally opposed running on a gay marriage amendment:

His thoughts on the gay-marriage amendment? "I don't think you should run a campaign on this issue," he told the Daily News earlier this month. "I think it would be a mistake for anybody to run a campaign on it -- the Democrats, the president, or anybody else."

Here's more from the New York Daily News:

"Rudy Giuliani came out yesterday against President Bush's call for a ban on gay marriage.

The former mayor, who Vice President Cheney joked the other night is after his job, vigorously defended the President on his post-9/11 leadership but made clear he disagrees with Bush's proposal to rewrite the Constitution to outlaw gays and lesbians from tying the knot.

"I don't think it's ripe for decision at this point," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

"I certainly wouldn't support [a ban] at this time," added Giuliani..."

Although Rudy may grudgingly say he doesn't support gay marriage (and it would be political suicide for him to do otherwise), where he really stands on the issue is an open question.

13 posted on 11/21/2007 8:43:49 PM PST by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: Jet Jaguar

If it was a lie, why did Kerry choose to lose rather than release his Form 180?

The Drive-By-Media can always be counted on to take the side of the left, and telling the truth is secondary to their agenda.


14 posted on 11/21/2007 8:47:30 PM PST by airborne (Proud to be a conservative! Proud to support Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: Pyro7480

If “9/11 Families” is Googled a bunch of different outfits appear. Some are legitimate and some are Democrat front groups—like the “Jersey Girls.” Conservatives have enough valid reasons for questioning Guiliani without adopting the talking points of a union smear machine.


15 posted on 11/21/2007 8:47:39 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee ("A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.")
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To: tear gas
You're full of it.

A couple of dozen union thugs, who also happen to be cops and firefighters, say bad things about Rudy and you act as if he has no respect from any of them.

Complete BS. You're full of it.

16 posted on 11/21/2007 8:52:28 PM PST by Mariner
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To: Brad from Tennessee

CORRECTED TYPE:

If “9/11 Families” is Googled a bunch of different outfits appear. Some are legitimate and some are Democrat front groups like the “Jersey Girls.” Conservatives have enough valid reasons for questioning Guiliani without adopting the talking points of a union smear machine.


17 posted on 11/21/2007 8:52:30 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee ("A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.")
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To: Pyro7480
Talk about a story with no winners.

Of course CNN is "The Biggest Loser".

18 posted on 11/21/2007 8:53:58 PM PST by BallyBill (Serial Hit-N-Run poster)
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To: Pyro7480

Swift-boating: It’s a GOOD thing.


19 posted on 11/21/2007 9:01:06 PM PST by donna (We live in this fog of political correctness, where everything is perpetual deception.-John Hagee)
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To: Steely Tom

Excellent post.


20 posted on 11/21/2007 9:02:07 PM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Mariner
While he was the “Republican Mayor” of New York City he appointed more than 60 men and women to the Civil, Criminal, and Family Court benchs. In all of those judicial appointment only two were Republican.

All of his other judical appointments were either registered Liberals or registered Democrats. As the “Republican Mayor” he had appointment power over more than 70 full commissioners in more than 50 City agencies, yet at no time during his administration did REPUBLICANS account for more than 10% of those appointments.

He even appointed Chuck Schumers wife as the City’s Department of Transportation Commissioner.


________________________________________________________________
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9054.html

“And even as we grieve for those who lost their lives, and our hearts and prayers go out to the victims and their loved ones, we may be able to find some sort of meaning in this tragedy by using it as a catalyst to revive national gun control efforts.”
Rudolph Giuliani

At the first Republican debate in May, Giuliani was alone among the GOP candidates in offering a less-than-robust affirmation when asked whether it would be a good day if the Supreme Court overturned the Roe v. Wade ruling.

"It would be OK," Giuliani said. "It would be OK to repeal it."

But, he added: "It would be OK also if a strict constructionist viewed it as precedent" and kept the law intact.

21 posted on 11/21/2007 9:02:59 PM PST by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: Pyro7480

“Swift boating” otherwise known as vicious truthing!


22 posted on 11/21/2007 9:04:08 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Your "dirt" on Fred is about as persuasive as a Nancy Pelosi Veteran's Day Speech)
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To: Interesting Times

Thanks for the thumbs-up.

You’ve been around a while! :)


23 posted on 11/21/2007 9:08:01 PM PST by Steely Tom (Steely's First Law of the Main Stream Media: if it doesn't advance the agenda, it's not news.)
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To: DakotaRed
He cannot be “swift Boated” unless he has a detrimental truth he is hiding from the public to get himself elected, like John ‘F’raud Kerry did.

That would be his long standing position on the executive board of a gay activism organization whose raison d'etre is to abolish age of consent laws.

24 posted on 11/21/2007 9:08:35 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck is the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aren't going.)
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To: Steely Tom

You’ve certainly got their modus operandi down cold.

I’ve been calling them “the Democrat Media” for quite awhile, although “the godless Media” is beginning to have a lot of attraction for me.

I’d call them “Pravda” but that means “truth” in Russian, and I’d hate to offend the truth.


25 posted on 11/21/2007 9:09:01 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Our God-given rights, and those of our posterity, are not open to debate, negotiation or compromise!)
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To: Pyro7480

Definition: swiftboat - v., to expose a poseur and reveal his true character by bringing forth convincing evidence


26 posted on 11/21/2007 9:10:33 PM PST by SergeiRachmaninov
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To: tear gas
" I could never ask our troops to salute Rudy Giuliani."

Even if he wears his fishnet stockings and black gloves?

27 posted on 11/21/2007 9:14:04 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: Pyro7480
I have done a little research on the complaints of these folks. Here is one of the pieces of info I have found. It is in regard to the testimony of the emergency preparedness guy before the 9/11 commission. He is a Hillary supporter. So far I have not found anything from him that backs up the families' complaint; he seems to have emphasized some kind of turf problem between the police and fire depts:

Later in the day, however, Jerome M. Hauer, who had served as director of the Office of Emergency Management for Mr. Giuliani, said the city had purchased radios to permit the two agencies to communicate, but had run into political problems.

"We attempted to get the Police and Fire Departments to communicate on both a common radio frequency at hazardous materials incidents and on an 800 megahertz frequency at major emergencies," Mr. Hauer said. "We were unable to get the two groups to share a common frequency at hazardous materials emergencies and the 800 megahertz radios were carried by fire chiefs, although rarely used, but not by the Police Department."

http://www.skyscrapersafety.org/html/article_20040520.html

28 posted on 11/21/2007 9:14:45 PM PST by freespirited (I'm voting for the GOP nominee.)
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To: Pyro7480
"Will Rudy Be ‘Swiftboated’?"

Does a bear poop in the woods?

29 posted on 11/21/2007 9:16:05 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Our God-given unalienable rights are not open to debate, negotiation or compromise!)
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To: EternalVigilance
I’ve been calling them “the Democrat Media” for quite awhile, although “the godless Media” is beginning to have a lot of attraction for me.

I’d call them “Pravda” but that means “truth” in Russian, and I’d hate to offend the truth.

I haven't hit on the perfect term for them, so I try different ones. I think Rush's "Drive By Media" is very very good, but when I use it I feel like I'm poaching from the master.

I think that, for Soviet Citizens, the name "Pravda" as used for the party's main propaganda organ, was kind of a sick joke. Kind of like that Catholic "gay" organization that calls itself "Dignity." Or, for that matter, the American Civil Liberties Union.

We live in the age of the public sick joke, which laughs in your face, with it's tin-foil and rhinestone halo wagging back and forth, not even trying to hide the fake coat-hanger that holds it crookedly aloft.

30 posted on 11/21/2007 9:17:01 PM PST by Steely Tom (Steely's First Law of the Main Stream Media: if it doesn't advance the agenda, it's not news.)
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To: DakotaRed

“He cannot be “swift Boated” unless he has a detrimental truth he is hiding from the public to get himself elected, like John ‘F’raud Kerry did.”

Shows how damaging lies and innuendo can be to a candidate. But let’s put this is perspective: Vietnam happened 30-40 years ago and halfway around the world. All we had were photos, camera footage and people’s memories... 9/11 was different- it happened here in America, was filmed from the moment the planes slammed into the WTC towers, was shown daily for weeks, maybe months; and much of what RG did was reported, filmed, photographed and analyzed daily.

Secondly, NY City for many decades had a deep split between the NYPD and NYFD and it was a continuous battle to get them to work together for many mayors. RG finally appointed a Chief to oversee and coordinate both departments to end the turf wars. He was reviled unfairly for that especially in the NY City media...

Doesn’t mean i’m an RG supporter, just want to shed some light on the subject..


31 posted on 11/21/2007 9:18:44 PM PST by billmor (tenjooberrymush)
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To: Pyro7480
Fire Dept officials were criticized by the staff of the 9/11 commission. In fact, their bad call was blamed for lost lives. Communication failures were deemed inevitable in a disaster of this scale.

-----------------------------------------------------------

In a report issued before Wednesday's testimony, the panel's staff found that New York fire officials had failed to realize that they could have dispatched firefighters more quickly to the South Tower in the crucial minutes after the skyscraper was hit by the second plane. Because of a lack of timely information, commanders dispatched new fire units to the South Tower instead of turning to units on hand in the North Tower. As a result, the additional firefighters arrived later and, in many cases, were killed in the ensuing collapse, the report said.

"The decision to handle the South Tower by dispatching new units meant that the number of firefighters available to help evacuees in that tower was relatively small for at least the first 20 minutes after the tower was hit, though that number sadly was rising in the minutes before that tower collapsed," the staff wrote in a 10-page report.

That haunting conclusion followed Tuesday's report, which acknowledged numerous acts of heroism and bravery on Sept. 11, 2001, but detailed widespread problems with the communication and organization of New York police and fire officials. The panel found that employees in the South Tower were erroneously told to stay there by 911 operators even after an evacuation order had been issued, and despite the fact that one of the stairwells in that tower remained passable.

By contrast, Wednesday's report praised the emergency response to the attack on the Pentagon in Northern Virginia, crediting a clear command system that vested a significant amount of power in one entity: the Arlington County Fire Department. But the commission report also cautioned that the "two experiences are not comparable" because of the scale of the calamity at the World Trade Center, which involved tens of thousands of potential victims and was far less contained than the devastation at the Pentagon.

But the staff also found that authorities in the Washington area reported communication glitches and other problems similar to those in New York. In an "after-action report" by Arlington County, for example, officials described problems with radio channels and equipment that had also plagued firefighters and police officers at the World Trade Center.

"Cellular telephones were of little value. . . . Radio channels were initially oversaturated. . . . Pagers seemed to be the most reliable means of notification when available and used, but most firefighters are not issued pagers," the Arlington report said, according to the commission.

The report concluded that command, control and communication problems "will likely recur in any emergency of similar scale." It recommended that New York adopt an "incident command" system to provide better coordination during major emergencies. Although Bloomberg and other New York officials testified that their new plan fits that definition, several commission members argued that the plan may cause more problems than it solves.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39104-2004May19_2.html

32 posted on 11/21/2007 9:22:34 PM PST by freespirited (I'm voting for the GOP nominee.)
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To: tear gas
The victims of 911 know Rudy is a coward.

Really? What kind of BS statement is that? What mayor of MAJOR U.S. city would have done better that morning? Remember?

I don't even support this guy. But give me a break. He did well on 9/11!

33 posted on 11/21/2007 9:27:33 PM PST by outofstyle (My Ride's Here)
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To: Steely Tom
We live in the age of the public sick joke, which laughs in your face, with it's tin-foil and rhinestone halo wagging back and forth, not even trying to hide the fake coat-hanger that holds it crookedly aloft.

Yeah. Kinda like "RU-486."

"Are you for eighty-six"?

eighty-six
One entry found.

Main Entry: eighty–six
Variant(s): or 86
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: probably rhyming slang for 3nix
Date: 1959
slang : to refuse to serve (a customer); also : to get rid of : throw out

34 posted on 11/21/2007 9:28:17 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Our God-given rights, and those of our posterity, are not open to debate, negotiation or compromise!)
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To: narses
What's any of that have to do with the accusations by the 911 union crew?

What is YOUR motive for tearing down a GOP contender?

Who do YOU advocate as presidential material?

There's been a eormous push by the Romneybots/Romneyites on this site lately. Tear down everyone else that counts (Fred and Rudy)...elevate everything possible about Romney. The Romeny Zombie Army.

Is Mitt Romney you man?

35 posted on 11/21/2007 9:33:57 PM PST by Mariner
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

The Anti-Rudi posts here are worse and more distasteful than their DU counterparts on the democratic forum.


36 posted on 11/21/2007 9:34:02 PM PST by Count of Monte Logan
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To: Mariner
What is YOUR motive for tearing down a GOP contender?

I abhor pedophilia. Rudy was on the executive board of the Stonewall Veteran's Association for years. There is no defence for this man in polite society. Period.

37 posted on 11/21/2007 9:45:14 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck is the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aren't going.)
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To: Count of Monte Logan
I tell the truth, if you want a left winger.

You must want only one party, the republicrat party.

No conservatives allowed!

38 posted on 11/21/2007 10:10:25 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Rudy and Romney, For reply, send a self-abused stomped elephant to the DNC.)
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To: Mariner

narses had a couple of good posts...

for a beginning low-down on Rudy, here is the article on Wikipedia on him..It is quite revealing- shows how he shunned the Conservative Party in NY for years, endorsed Mario Cuomo, D over George Pataki-R, appointed mostly Liberals and Democrats to the NY State judiciary and to many NT State commissions, and accepted the Liberal Party endorsement. He has said he is a Rockefeller Republican..That means Trouble with a capital T..Rockefeller is the poster boy for RINO...been there, saw that firsthand...

Here is the Wikipedia URL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani


39 posted on 11/21/2007 10:10:58 PM PST by billmor (tenjooberrymush....)
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To: billmor

I too am not a RG supporter. But, too many of us, Viet Nam is still fresh and vivid in our memories.

As for the Swift Boat Vets, the lies and innuendoes were actually about them, not by them. In the rapid fire cry of how wrong it is to bash a Veteran, it was completely missed that the Swift Boat Vets are a group of over 250 men, all Highly Decorated Combat Veterans who spent much more time fighting in country than ‘Lurch did.

As far as I’m concerned, Lurch threw away his membership in the Brotherhood by his slanderous lies he told in 1971 and since. He was exposed for what he is and the left now tries to make the term Swift Boating what it isn’t.

In its truest sense, Swift Boating is what we need more of, exposing lying politicians that hide their nature from us.


40 posted on 11/21/2007 10:34:00 PM PST by DakotaRed (Liberals don't rattle sabers, they wave white flags)
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To: Mariner
What is YOUR motive for tearing down a GOP contender?

Mariner,

All he is doing is posting his record.

How can that be construed as "tearing down a GOP contender".

I simply do not understand.
41 posted on 11/21/2007 10:53:30 PM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: Count of Monte Logan
The Anti-Rudi posts here are worse and more distasteful than their DU counterparts on the democratic forum.

No they are not.

I have seen the posts on DU, the anti-posts, including mine don't even come close.

Most of the Anti-Rudy posts on this site include his record.

He is the most liberal Republican Candidate ever for President.

His past is awful.

He deserves everything he is getting on this site because of his own choices.

BTW, do you think Hillary will soft-shoe it with him?

You think conservatives discussing his past is bad, wait until a fellow liberal gets going and starts actually sliming him.

If by some miracle he is nominated, Hillary will take his record and use it like a club to beat him senseless.
42 posted on 11/21/2007 10:57:14 PM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: outofstyle
"Really? What kind of BS statement is that? What mayor of MAJOR U.S. city would have done better that morning? Remember?" Any republican mayor would have done as well or better.

Yes, he did well, but it does not make him a saint, nor does it make him above criticism.
43 posted on 11/21/2007 10:59:28 PM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: DakotaRed

Thank you DakotaRed for your good definition of what ‘Swift Boating’ is. That’s the first time i have ever seen it defined like that.

As for Vietnam vets, i too was there and have many memories of the Central Highlands area where we were...also still have the memory of film clips showing JK testifying before Congress and his rotten lies about the troops in the RVN...If he wouldn’t back the troops, can you imagine how he would (and still does)betray the US in world affairs ?


44 posted on 11/21/2007 10:59:56 PM PST by billmor (tenjooberrymush....)
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To: SoConPubbie

“If by some miracle he is nominated, Hillary will take his record and use it like a club to beat him senseless.”

Wrong on both accounts. First, Rudy will be nominated. Second, Hill’s record as pathetic as it is (is New York still paying her to tour the country on her behalf?) with her vote yes, then no, double talking (keep thinking voters), pub “mudslinging” rheotric along with false intentions and continued support and dependency on a “man” who lied to an entire nation under oath (Oh, forgot, that’s okay to those with no morals) and must also mention that she supported the removal of Saddam then dating back to the Bill days yet back peddled when complications arised. Yeah, Rudy is a sure loser!


45 posted on 11/21/2007 11:22:17 PM PST by CTSeditor
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To: narses

46 posted on 11/21/2007 11:35:21 PM PST by Fargo Rock
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
Rudy sure fits a democrat profile!

IT is for the murder of unborn babies!
IT is a big gun control nut!
IT covered for the invaders in ITS city!
IT surrounds ITself with queers and thugs!

Why does IT have an R by ITS name instead of a D?

I'll give you one of many evidences of Rudy's Republicanism, and maybe after you've read it you'll stop spamming the board with your ridiculous post:

If Duncan Hunter is the nominee, Rudy will support him and campaign for him.

If Fred Thompson is the nominee, Rudy will support him and campaign for him.

If Mitt Romney is the nominee, Rudy will support him and campaign for him.

Rudy will support and campaign for the Republican nominee, because Republicans support Republicans in general elections. Democrats do not support Republicans in general elections.

Got it?

47 posted on 11/21/2007 11:50:39 PM PST by Chunga (Fred Thompson '08)
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To: Pyro7480

I did not know that Rudy was in Viet Nam.


48 posted on 11/21/2007 11:52:28 PM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Pyro7480
Rudy will be the nominee. Forget Iowa and New Hampshire. He will win enough states to advance. We will have to deal with it. I would rather have Fred or Duncan. But there will be Supreme Court openings to deal with.
49 posted on 11/22/2007 12:00:07 AM PST by Brimack34
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To: Chunga
Rudy campaigned for a democrat over a republican for the Governor of NY.

So that blows your statement out of the water.

50 posted on 11/22/2007 2:01:50 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Rudy and Romney, For reply, send a self-abused stomped elephant to the DNC.)
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