Posted on 11/23/2007 10:15:15 AM PST by NYer
And . . . Acts 10:9-48
Wonderful article. I’m keeping it for future discussions with people who want to “normalize” homosexuality. Thanks for posting it.
Was thinking along the same lines. Why is it wrong? “Because God said so.”
Good point. I think it’s noteworthy that the Zoroastrians had a very strong influence on Judaism and Christianity.
“Rome’s glory was always mixed with brutality. Both Rome and Greece were, in their power, imperialistic. They also practiced infanticide, abandoning unwanted children to die of starvation and exposure. They were powerful and advanced in many things, but no model for morality.”
By that same standard, neither can any Judeo-Christian society be considered a model for morality.
Blessings on you and yours for this post !shalom b'shem Yah'shua
I read the whole article and never did see any convincing arguments for the claim that the development of western Civilization was inextricably linked to Judaism or Christianity. If things had happened differently, could we have gotten to somewhere like where we are today, still praying to the Roman pantheon?
Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc - After this, therefore because of this
I liked the article. A lot.
The wifeless rabbi paragraphs make one think of Jesus & Paul, but they are not central to the argument.
Those given totally to the true God would be making a statement about ultimate values.
It’s too bad that Dennis gives such weight to Freud, who’s work was fraudulant, self-serving, and sick.
>>I read the whole article and never did see any convincing arguments for the claim that the development of western Civilization was inextricably linked to Judaism or Christianity. If things had happened differently, could we have gotten to somewhere like where we are today, still praying to the Roman pantheon?<<
Its an interesting premise. And certainly Roman occupation of Israel did lead to Rome adopt Christianity.
But also certainly most of the roots of western civilization, from democracy to science, roads, entertainment and even politics, corruption and other “western” evils were present before Christianity conquered Rome.
One reason you can’t claim modern Western civilization is totally from Christianity is that Wester Civilization is not that Christian.
But its an interesting article and I’m glad it was posted.
I agree with much of what Prager says, but clearly he doesn’t understand medieval France:
“In medieval France, when men stressed male-male love, it “implied a corresponding lack of interest in women. In the Song of Roland, a French mini-epic given its final form in the late eleventh or twelfth century, women appear only as shadowy marginal figures: “The deepest signs of affection in the poem, as well as in similar ones appear in the love of man for man...”
The Song of Roland is a military epic, a tragedy wrapped in bravery. In all ancient and medieval military epics there were expressions of love - that’s friendship, people - between men. There were no women in the armies after all! The love between male characters in the Song of Roland was not homosexual, sexual, or even “homo-erotic”. It was simply friendship. It was no more sexual than the love between Frodo and Sam in the Lord of the Rings (and homosexuals are trying to claim that was sexual too!).
Greek and Roman civilization were not western civilization. Western Civilization rose from the ashes of the dark ages and it's rise was largely the result of the injection of Christianity (therefore Judaism) into a then pagan culture.
So I think Praeger's point is fair. The dark ages was a huge civilizational break. While the Greek and Roman influence persists, the emergence from the dark ages coincided with the Christianization of Europe. So Judaeo-Christian values in marriage, amongst other things, were at least coincident with the rise of what we now call Western Civilization and clearly distinguish it from it's predecessors in Greece and Rome.
Too hardest addictions to control
SEX
FOOD
Alcohol—tobacco—Others drugs addictions can be overcome easier than SEX and FOOD addictions because the latter two are normal appetites and always there while the former fade after ceasing the intake
>>But the part I commenting was about making Western civilization possible.
That’s a different definition of Western civilization than I had in mind and certainly different than taught in the “Origins of Western Civilization” I studied at a conservative Christian school...
but that doesn’t make you wrong. And if the author is using your definition then I can see how he reached his conclusions.
Understandable, but it is not merely the fact that Zoroastrianism predates Judaism. There was a lot of interaction between Jews and Zoroastrians, especially after the Persians liberated the Jews from Babylon.
...It is Judaism's sexual morality, not homosexuality, that historically has been deviant.
Let me pause at this point.
You'd think that he could express himself in such a way so that it didn't sound like he was speaking for homosexuals. I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to use his remarks in order to bolster their own arguments.
Also, slight correction, Ishtar was a goddess, not a god.
Now back to the article.
Good fact. I did enjoy the article. It seems to me to be written as a non-believer would write: for example he argues that Judaism desexualized God . . . rather than in the nature of God himself. I wonder whether Prager's faith is rooted in a belief in God or if it is rooted in the social benefits of his Jewish heritage . . .
Again, he is making the other side's points for them -- because after reading this, they will say, So why are people so concerned with other people's gender preferences?
Just curious: When do you think Abraham and Moses lived and when do you think Zoroastrianism was a distinct philosophy?
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