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To: Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; dano1; xzins; 1000 silverlings; Gamecock
At the time, I think it was against the common law to abort a "quickened" fetus

What is a "quickened" fetus? Was it not one in which life could be detected? Didn't that mean that once a doctor determined that the fetus was "alive" that to terminate the pregnancy would have been a crime?

We know can measure brain waves and hearbeats and we don't need to wait for evidence that the baby is kicking to determine that it is "quick"

In any event, if it WAS the Framers' intention to protect the unborn they sure chose poor words to begin the Amendment: "All persons born ...".

The phrase "persons born" relates only to the person's designation as a Citizen and not to their qualifications as a "person." The forteenth amendment is clear that it is intended to protect the rights of all persons (whether they are born or not) to life, liberty and property. If congress defined a person as a "quickened" fetus, then that might just end nearly all abortions. Clearly where a heartbeat and/or brain waves are detectable, the fetus would qualify as being "quickened".

Madison and Hamilton both fully anticipated judicial review in the Federalist Papers.

Right, but they did not anticipate the kind of judicial legislation which took place in Roe. Per the 14th amendment the right to define "person" is a legislative prerogative rather than a judicial. Clearly all persons born would be protected, but Congress could clearly pass laws to protect the rights of persons not yet born by simply defining them as "persons". In other words Congress clearly has the right to expand the definintion of person to include unborn children or quickened fetuses.

102 posted on 11/30/2007 2:32:07 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; dano1; xzins; 1000 silverlings; Gamecock; ...
What is a "quickened" fetus? Was it not one in which life could be detected? Didn't that mean that once a doctor determined that the fetus was "alive" that to terminate the pregnancy would have been a crime?

Yes, since there were no pregnancy tests at the time, it was considered the point of incontrovertible proof that the woman was pregnant, i.e. the baby kicked. And yes, it was a crime to terminate a pregnancy after this point. It was considered a misdemeanor, but as you probably know a "misdemeanor" back then was much more serious than we think of it today.

If congress defined a person as a "quickened" fetus, then that might just end nearly all abortions. Clearly where a heartbeat and/or brain waves are detectable, the fetus would qualify as being "quickened".

From your lips to God's ears if it would work.

Right, but [Hamilton and Madison] did not anticipate the kind of judicial legislation which took place in Roe.

That is certainly true.

In other words Congress clearly has the right to expand the definition of person to include unborn children or quickened fetuses.

Well, we're going to need 60 conservatives in the Senate like we've never seen before. May God deliver us. :)

104 posted on 12/01/2007 12:14:44 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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