Posted on 11/28/2007 3:36:04 PM PST by Pyro7480
On Wednesday’s CBS "Early Show,"co-host Hannah Storm, who tvnewser.com reports will soon be leaving the show, teased an upcoming segment about the controversy over the atheist-inspired movie, "The Golden Compass": "And Nicole Kidman on why the Church doesn't want your children to see her new movie." Of course, the "Church" has said no such thing, but rather the Catholic League has called for a boycott of the movie.
Later during the segment, Storm talked with Catholic League President, Bill Donohue, as well as Ellen Johnson, the president of American Atheists. To Storm’s credit, she challenged Johnson by quoting the atheist author of the "Golden Compass" book trilogy, Phillip Pullman:
STORM: Now let's talk about some of the things that Pullman has said. Back in 2003, he was comparing himself to the Harry Potter series, he said "Hey, I've been flying under the radar, saying things that are far more subversive than anything poor Harry has said. My books are about killing God." Is he promoting atheism? Does he have an agenda here?
ELLEN JOHNSON: Killing has nothing to do with atheism. I think that the movies are about questioning authority, and I think that's a good thing. Questioning the authority of the state, questioning the authority of the Church. I think that if more children were taught to question authority, maybe a lot fewer of them would have been sexually molested by priests. Questioning authority is a good thing.
Later in the segment, Donohue accurately pointed out "It's done wonders in China, hasn't it? And under Stalin it's done a great job there too." It’s not like atheists in China or the Soviet Union ever killed anyone.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsbusters.org ...
It is nice sounding theory that when you separate the Christian Church from the state, you get stability, but it does not pass the common sense test.
For instance, I know it is the first words out of any atheist mouth when you try to talk with them about Jesus, “Explain the Inquisition,” and “Look how evil the church was!” and “Look what they did in the name of Jesus!”
It is true that about 500 years ago, fanatics killed about 10,000 people over a 100 year time period (about 100/year) in the name of the Roman Catholic church. Now compare this record to the example of the countries that have officially done away with religion. To the countries that have outright banned religion and imprisoned those who try to practice it (the ultimate test of the theory of separation of church and state).
Yes, I am talking about Communist countries. In the Communist Manifesto, Engel and Marx declared, “Communism abolishes all religion.” In my father’s lifetime, the numbers of people that officially atheist countries have murdered in the name of no-religion is staggering; the USSR slaughtered 20 million, China slaughtered 10 million, Communist Cambodia slaughtered 2 million, Communist North Korea has/continues to murder untold numbers, Communist Cuba has/continues to murder untold numbers, the list goes on.
The grand total is over 50+ million dead in the last 80-year time span (over 600,000/year). Even comparing the worst time of “Christian Persecution” to an average time of a just one country that has officially and forcefully separated church and state, the conclusion is obvious: Christianity has a huge calming influence on government.
10,000? I thought recent historical analysis have refuted that number. Don't forget plenty of people were killed both by Catholics AND Protestants in various wars and persecutions as well.
Will she question She Who Must not Be Named?
Okay. I question the authority which claims that global warming is caused by humans.
“Don’t forget plenty of people were killed both by Catholics AND Protestants in various wars and persecutions as well.”
I think we’re in this one together.
The media is assaulting all Christians regardless of historical creed or denomination.
Still, only rarely do you find the situation where a person was killed by both a Catholic and a Protestant ~ usually one or the other.
AMEN
The Second Great Awakening in this nation is what lead Christians to bring an end to the institution of slavery.
Actually, if you study the history more closely, you find that the Inquisition in Italy was far more just, reasonable, and moderate, than any of the secular authorities of that time. Torture and execution by such means as drawing and quartering were common in early days. Calvin was burning heretics in Geneva at the same time that Catholics were burning them in Florence.
In other words, by the standards of the time, they were pretty mild.
The Spanish inquisition was much worse. But that was run by Phillip II and other kings, not by the Pope. In general, Rome disapproved but was unable to prevent it.
And recent studies of the Spanish inquisition have found that even that was not as bad as it has always been portrayed. Again, not to excuse it, but to emphasize your point that the Inquisition looks very nice alongside someone like Stalin or Hitler or even your average king or duke back in those days.
Anyone really curious about the matter should read John Tedeschi’s classic study, “The Prosecution of Heresy,” for a start. He points out that of all the thousands of “witches” killed in the 16th and 17th centuries, almost all were executed by secular courts in Germany and other Protestant countries. In Italy, the Inquisition mostly found that these were not witches, but merely deluded women.
This whole debate will be a moot point. Early reviews of the Golden Compass were tepid, a 2.5 out of 5 star movie. Especially scathing was the review of Nicole Kidman’s performance who has managed to defy logic and has actually become a worse actress as the years go by. Couple a lousy movie with built in controversy and an overt hortility to 2/3 of your demographic and can you say BOMB.
I bet Ellen Johnson thinks it’s OK when people question the authority of the church, but not OK to question the authority of the government. Typical atheist/statist/socialist.
“ELLEN JOHNSON: Killing has nothing to do with atheism.”
Killing God has nothing to do with atheism?
Wow, sneaky AND lying. They’ve got the evil thing down pat.
bump
Wonder what Kidman was thinking when she read the script? Think she mentally deleted Pullman’s view of Christianity and the Catholic Church and substituted Scientology?
True, almost all were killed by secular courts, but your sentence implies that almost all were killed in Protestant countries. This is a gross inaccuracy.
I've been unable to locate a breakdown by total number or rate for Protestant vs. Catholic countries, but it is certainly a fact that witches were executed in large numbers in many Catholic countries.
Also, during the period in question "Germany" did not exist as a country. The Holy Roman Empire, which included most of what is now Germany as well as some adjacent areas, was split pretty evenly between Protestant and Catholic princedoms, with witchcraft prosecutions pursued with little difference by religion.
While the Spanish Inquisition did many bad things, they executed few if any witches. At some periods, they punished as heretics those who promoted the witchcraft delusions!
The common perception is that witch trials were top-down persecutions organized by the authorities. The actual typical event was a good deal more like the witch scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, with mob action followed by local leaders desperately running to get in front of the crowd so as to "lead" it. Present-day "witch mobs" in Africa function much like this, with the exception that the authorities are too intimidated by Western values to really get into the whole witch-killing thing publicly.
Yes, I used “Germany” as shorthand for the general area. I think most people know that unification didn’t come until the time of Bismarck. I also spoke of Italy, meaning the area, although unification didn’t come until Garibaldi appeared on the scene.
The witchcraft craze was definitely associated with the Reformation, although the causal connections can be argued. The great wave of persecutions and executions took place after the end of the middle ages, and I would say was partly due to the confusion that arose during the Wars of Religion, notably the Thirty Year’s War.
The simplified Whig version of history is that superstition was greatest during the Dark Ages, but as we see in our day superstion is usually most prevalent when religion is in doubt or contention.
Can you point to a single person other than Servetus who was burned at the stake during Calvin's leadership in the Genevan church?
Cordially,
Yes, I was thinking of Servetus.
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