UK: Whitehall report - Navy would struggle to fight a war

The Telegraph ^ | 12/2/2007 | Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent

[Rikstir]

A very comprehensive post, some of it good, some of it bad.

It isn’t in our national interests to rely on other nations for armaments, as these can be reduced or meaningless should allies turn to enemies.

The last lend/lease deal the UK did with the US ripped us off in the Atlantic, with a bunch of barely operational rust buckets being hawked off to the RN in exchange for British sovereign land, and a whole heap of cash. Not to be repeated. Only this year have we ‘paid our debt’ to the US, 60 odd years after the wonderful ‘favour’.

The UK’s shipbuilding industry would suffer as a result of lost contracts for the Astute, Type 45, QE Class and the River’s. With tens of thousands of jobs at stake, it would be stupid to simply pay the Yanks for ships they built. Which, while they MAY be good vessels, wont improve the manufacturing sector of the UK in terms of military builds. So we lose 10,000 jobs, the BAE dry docks in Barrow are sold off, and we can no longer build our own weapons.

We have commissioned the new Albion Class to enable a rapid blue water deployment of marines and ground forces. The hew carriers will dwarf the prospective lend/lease options you cited in your post, namely the 40,000 tonne LHD’s you proposed. Why would we want these inferior carriers, able to carry only a few more planes than our redoubtable Invincible Class, than the 60,000 tonne, state of the art twin island CVF’s able to field near 60 aircraft????? Sounds like someone doesn’t want us to get capabilities that match their own.

The CVF’s are a British design, British manufactured, with little input from the French. Our manufacturing base constructs some superb products, and have made alot of money selling them overseas. Maybe the US would prefer us to keep out of their arms dealing territory, but tough, we aint gonna.

The stripped down versions of the Type 45 you are referring to, state that the vessels have been built for, but not with, certain systems. These would take minimal time for them to be added in event of modern war.

Your comments concerning the carrier that the UK is going to build for France (and its singular, you talks in pluralities), wont be better or more effective that the UK’s. Why would we make something better for another nation???? You also talk about the CVF’s being ill-equipped technologically compared to US carriers being proposed for 2010. but if your vessels are made after, then they will be more advanced than the US’. Obviously!

So we are going to sell our fleet so we can build 2 carriers????? I think not pal. This is some good scaremongering, and would even find some print in a tabloid rag, but serious studied analysis it aint!

[Rikstir]

Type 23 Frigate: Last vessel commissioned June 2002

Specifications

Weapon Systems

* 2 x quadruple Harpoon missile launchers
* 32 x Vertical Launch Sea Wolf Surface-to-air missiles (VLS GWS 26 Mod 1 Block 2 system)
* 1 x 114 mm (4.5 in) Vickers Mark 8 gun (all ships being upgraded to Mod 1 standard)
* 2 x Oerlikon 30 mm L/75 KCB guns on single Laurence Scott DS-30B mounts. Being upgraded to remote control with electro-optic director
* 4 x Cray Marine 324 mm (2 twin) fixed torpedo tubes, Marconi Sting Ray
* NATO Seagnat, Type 182 and DLF3 countermeasures launchers

Aircraft:

* Westland Lynx HM.8 or AgustaWestland Merlin HM.1 helicopter
* Armament:
o Sea Skua missiles (Lynx only)
o Sting Ray torpedoes
o depth charges

Electronic Systems

* Search: BAE Systems Radar Type 996 Mod 1, 3D surveillance
* Navigation: Kelvin Hughes Radar Type 1007 and Racal Decca Type 1008
* Fire control:
o 2 x GEC Marconi Type 911 Sea Wolf systems
o Sperry Sea Archer 30 optronic surveillance / director
* Bow sonar: Thales Underwater Systems Type 2050
* Towed sonar: Ultra Electronics Type 2031Z, being replaced by Type 2087 in eight ships
* Combat Management System: BAE Systems Command System DNA(1)

Last of the line is only 5 years old, and their are capabilities for surface-to-surface, surface-to-air and ASW. And what developed world nation is going to have a war against the UK? Seriously?

[uncbob]

GOP congress could have stopped it