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Pro-life: What does it really mean?
WorldNetDaily ^ | 12/5/07 | Mark Crutcher

Posted on 12/05/2007 4:45:50 PM PST by wagglebee

Today, there seems to be a lot of debate about what it means when someone says they are pro-life. This is especially true for politicians. For clarity's sake, let's define the term. The pro-life position is that a new human life is created at the moment of fertilization and is, thus, entitled to the same legal protections as any other human being.

Given that definition, some abortion positions are pretty cut and dried. For example, someone who supports a universal human life amendment to the Constitution is pro-life, while someone who supports the Roe vs. Wade decision is not.

Then there is the person who says that they are personally opposed to abortion and would never participate in one, but pro-choice when it comes to legality. As amazing as it may seem, I have actually heard pro-lifers describe people who say this as pro-life.

In reality, this is the most insidious and despicable of all positions on abortion. After all, there is no reason to oppose abortion other than the belief that it takes the life of a living human being. So what the "personally opposed" crowd is saying is: "I agree that abortion is the intentional killing of a baby, but if other people want to do it I support their legal right to do so and it's not my place to interfere." That is not a pro-life position. It's like someone in 1860 saying, "I am personally opposed to slavery and I would never own one, but if someone else wants to own a few that's their business."

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; moralabsolutes; prolife
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In reality, this is the most insidious and despicable of all positions on abortion. After all, there is no reason to oppose abortion other than the belief that it takes the life of a living human being. So what the "personally opposed" crowd is saying is: "I agree that abortion is the intentional killing of a baby, but if other people want to do it I support their legal right to do so and it's not my place to interfere."

The pro-abortionists NEVER want to accept this reality.

1 posted on 12/05/2007 4:45:51 PM PST by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 12/05/2007 4:46:27 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 230FMJ; 49th; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; ..
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or little jeremiah to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 12/05/2007 4:46:56 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
After all, there is no reason to oppose abortion other than the belief that it takes the life of a living human being.

If the author doesn't understand this is a false claim, then it's no wonder he misses the big picture.

4 posted on 12/05/2007 4:48:46 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: wagglebee
That position is a tacit acceptance of moral relativism. It is absurd because, by the same logic, I could say I personally believe Pythagoras' Theorem but would not want to make acceptance of it (and all propositions built on top of it) a prerequisite for structural engineers.
5 posted on 12/05/2007 4:52:22 PM PST by Lexinom (Build the fence and call China to account. GoHunter08.com)
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To: Gondring

What do you mean by that?


6 posted on 12/05/2007 4:54:20 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Lexinom

Or the law of gravity, let them try it with that.


7 posted on 12/05/2007 4:55:09 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Actually there are libs who acknowledge that it is killing a child but they boil it down to a “quality of life” issue and all of the unpleasantness of being born into a single mother household, or never knowing your birth parents, or two incompatible people being together for the sake of the kid, or a married couple getting divorced because of the byproduct of an affair, or being burdened with a child who MAY have some birth defects (better safe than sorry), etc.

Every child a WANTED child. They are all children, some are unwanted and should never be given the opportunity to rest in someone’s loving arms I guess.

I saw a book years ago that “settled” many of society’s “tough” issues, including abortion. The first rule of the author’s piece was to say, “we’ll set aside whether it is a person/baby/alive...” and so he(?) came down on the side of abortion.

I heard Whoopi Goldberg telling Ron Paul that abortion is no easy decision, yet Whoopi herself claims to have had 6 OR 7 abortions and that by this point she has lost count. Some “troubling” decision. And what is troublesome about it if it isn’t a person? If it is equal to the placenta, why the fuss? There isn’t the stigma with using a condom (the seed didn’t do the job). So it is more than just being the “potential” for being human that bothers them.

They know what it is but choose to ignore the reality. LA LA LA LA, I CAN’T HEAR YOU. LA LA LA LA...


8 posted on 12/05/2007 4:56:47 PM PST by weegee (End the Bush-Bush-Bush-Clinton/Clinton-Clinton/Clinton-Bush-Bush-Clinton/Clinton Oligarchy 1980-2012)
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To: wagglebee
The pro-life position is that a new human life is created at the moment of fertilization [...]

Oh?

Who says?

What if God decides not to infuse a soul until the 92-cell blastocyst stage? Are you going to tell Him that He's not pro-life, Mr. Crutcher?

Did the Creator whisper in your ear that it's not at the implantation stage?

Sheesh...this is ridiculous. A person might very well believe that life is imbued at conception...or perhaps that it resides in the ovum prior to implantation... Maybe the ovum is a new human life that is just activated by the fertilization...after all, monozygotic twins are a single cell at first. If a single cell can be two lives, why can't a single ovum be a life?

Maybe it "makes sense" that conception would be a nice, convenient time for God to insert a soul...but it's pure arrogance to claim that anyone who doesn't know that for sure is somehow not pro-life.

9 posted on 12/05/2007 5:00:59 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Gondring
Some propositional calculus: No opposers of abortions believe it does not take a human life.

We can cancel out the double negative and say that All opposers of abortion believe it does take a human life.

Technically you are correct that this is flawed logic: You could conceivably have an autocratically-governed nation facing a depopulation crisis wherein the government decided to outlaw all abortions. Something like Russia comes to mind.

Despite the technical correctness, I don't see how such a scenario is even remotely relevant to the situation in America, wherein abortion-on-demand has become a cornerstone on which we've built a sexually promiscuous culture which is undermining the family - and will ultimately bring us down.

10 posted on 12/05/2007 5:03:22 PM PST by Lexinom (Build the fence and call China to account. GoHunter08.com)
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To: wagglebee
Hypothetically (that is, I'm not saying that I believe this), a person could believe that the problem with abortion is the destruction of the potential of a human life. That is, picture a person who believes life begins at birth...then aborting the fetus might be likened to mowing down flowers in your lawn or something. That is, "I personally wouldn't do it, but it's not a crime for you to do it to your own flowers."

Probably an imperfect analogy, but I'm just trying to illustrate that the author will fail to convince anyone who isn't already in the choir if he doesn't understand the true beliefs of those who aren't already pro-life.

11 posted on 12/05/2007 5:04:47 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Gondring

You don’t have to believe in souls to be pro-life. You don’t even have to believe in God to be pro-life. There are pro-life athiests.


12 posted on 12/05/2007 5:06:00 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: wagglebee

Pro-life: What does it really mean?

I respect and know the value of my own life, and wish every opportunity for anyone else, to have the chance to enjoy living a life, as it is very rare in our universe.


13 posted on 12/05/2007 5:07:49 PM PST by Son House ($$Proud Member of Vast Right Wing, Out To Lower Your Tax Rates For More Opportunities.$$)
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To: wagglebee

Abortion is murder. If a person is pro-choice, then their “choice” is to condone murder. If a woman chooses to have an abortion, then she is murdering her own child. There is no nuance. There is no ambiguity. A person is a person whether they breathe air or not, whether they can talk or not, whether they can open their eyes or not, or whether they can walk or not. Murder is murder.

Pro-choice=Pro-murder.


14 posted on 12/05/2007 5:08:19 PM PST by highimpact (Abortion - [n]: human sacrifice at the altar of convenience.)
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To: Gondring

Putting aside the question of when life actually begins and when one is imbued with a soul, the fact remains that in the past thirty-five years there have been 50 MILLION abortions performed and very nearly all of them would have resulted in viable, live births of PEOPLE who would have gone on to live normal lives.


15 posted on 12/05/2007 5:09:59 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Lorianne; Gondring
You don’t have to believe in souls to be pro-life. You don’t even have to believe in God to be pro-life. There are pro-life athiests.

Very true, because I have yet to encounter someone who does not believe in the existence of life.

16 posted on 12/05/2007 5:12:16 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Then there is the person who says that they are personally opposed to abortion and would never participate in one, but pro-choice when it comes to legality.

Those are the "I just want people to like me" crowd. The same who say "I'm spiritual, I just don't agree with organized religion". They please one side with their personal behavior, and the other side with their non-interventionist principles.

Face it, while conservatives are interested in people doing the moral right thing, liberals just want to be able to sin in peace--preferably without being reminded of the consequences of their own sins.
17 posted on 12/05/2007 5:13:52 PM PST by dan1123 (You are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. --Jesus)
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To: Lexinom
Technically you are correct that this is flawed logic

I'm glad to see that some logic has remained on FR. :-) But my point addresses the premise "there is no reason to oppose abortion other than the belief that it takes the life of a living human being" directly. Also, the author makes the jump from "a living human being" to "a baby."

Despite the technical correctness, I don't see how such a scenario is even remotely relevant to the situation in America, wherein abortion-on-demand has become a cornerstone on which we've built a sexually promiscuous culture which is undermining the family - and will ultimately bring us down.

I beliefve that many Americans do not believe that abortion takes the life of a "human being" or "a baby"...in fact, I know that many do not.

It's delusional to think that people with that mindset can be changed by ignoring the beliefs that they actually hold...and I believe that abortion must be defeated by changing hearts and minds, not just overriding public opinion via politics.

18 posted on 12/05/2007 5:16:57 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Lorianne; wagglebee
You don’t have to believe in souls to be pro-life. You don’t even have to believe in God to be pro-life. There are pro-life athiests.

Agreed.

I simply used the theistic approach for illustration. Of course, one could simply substitute "reality" for God. That is, Mr. Crutcher can make all the claims he wants, but do we really know when "life" begins, in reality? Sure, we can go "by definition"...but then that just postpones the question of "what are we protecting...?"

And the atheistic approach also has its own sticking points... for example, do we have an obligation to save a person in danger of dying? Since so many conceptions don't result in implantation, if conception means life, does that obligate us to rescue these poor souls before their mother's body cruelly flushes them out?

This might sound crazy, but it's the natural extension of saying that life begins at conception and there's moral obligation to save a life in danger.

19 posted on 12/05/2007 5:22:02 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Gondring
Abortion as the cornerstone has enabled - indeed forced - many of an entire generation to assume it a priori. To take it away has real, brass tacks implications for lifestyle. Their entire truth framework, while most not directly impacted by life is, nonetheless constructed with that assumption. Think "Princess and the Pea" - only with a little bit more displacement :-)

That is what we are up against, even though I have zero reason to doubt the logical soundness of the pro-life position (life as a substance with an nondegreed essential nature guiding development, the usual Aristotelian arguments). Emotion/pop-culture vs. logic. And that is often what we see when attempting to reason with pro-choice people.

20 posted on 12/05/2007 5:34:39 PM PST by Lexinom (Build the fence and call China to account. GoHunter08.com)
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