Posted on 12/06/2007 8:22:12 AM PST by La Enchiladita
please show what you think is doctrine!
We cover that, especially the part where God was once a man called Jesus Christ.
175 posted on 12/06/2007 2:49:00 PM EST by Grig
Nice try, son. Typical of a deceitful mormonism apologist to try and obfuscate that Mormonism teaches God the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth was once a man in a fleshly body who became exalted through His own efforts at maintaining righteous behavior ... and don't lie again and try to point to the One whom Christians do believe HAS A BODY, Jesus, and try to hide the heresy that you believe The Creator once had a fleshly body. You insult not only your readers, you insult Jesus Christ and God The Father Almighty when you seek to be deceitful regarding God. Yeah, you covered it all right, covered it with Mormon manure.
This thread remained civil for quite a while and not a problem for the moderators, unlike another predominated by your Peanut Gallery group.
If you don’t have something to specifically say about Romney’s speech, then I am asking you to stop posting your Mormon-bashing tripe here. You’ve posted it thousands of times, it’s nothing new AND it is not welcome.
This is a coservative, Constitution-based website, focusing on politics. Go ahead and state your political views for political ideological reasons but stop the faith-bashing.
Give him a break. He was governor of the Blue-est state in America. You can’t be idealogically pure in that kind of environment. There is no doubt in my mind that Romney will appt Alito/Roberts type judges when elected. No doubt he will stand up for marriage. Giuliani is the one who is a total joke trying to pass himself off as a social conservative with a personal life just north of BJ Clinton’s. He’s a one note candidate. On taxes, Romney would be better than Huckabee who has a serious case of Jimmy Carter syndrome that he tries to mask with that unrealistic fair tax talk. He’s a Christian statist all the way — scarier than Romney if you have a libertarian bone in your body. And Thompson is just wishful thinking. He can’t organize a decent campaign when there is an obvious crying need for a “real” conservative, which doesn’t say much about his management skills or his desire. Fred is a McCain-type at heart anyway. And Hunter has no no name and no money. I am fully aware of Mitt’s flaws, but he is looking more and more like my guy.
Well, I see the bigoted “religious” (and I use that term loosely) haters are still active and thumping along on this thread. Proud of yourself?
I think Mitt Romney’s speech was absolutely eloquent. I think it far surpassed John F. Kennedy’s speech of 50 years ago, as Mitt had so much more ground that he had to cover in one speech. Romney has done what he can to alleviate any fears of the unknown religiously speaking without plowing through the doctrinal nitty-gritty of his faith so that the haters can use it as material to take further potshots at his religion.
Bravo Mitt Romney on an excellent speech that will appeal to the rational, spiritually mature, fair minded and decent among us. The rest will end up where the sun don’t shine and the fires burn continually for their small-minded, disgusting show of exactly the opposite of what religious freedom in this country is supposed to represent. To h*ll with them, as that is where they will end up anyway.
Squeal about posts like the one previous to mine demanding replay of doctrine for discussion and someone might, MIGHT think you were being genuine. Is Mitty’s strategy to make his Mormonism cult more a focal point than his liberal history finally wearing on your Mitt supporters?
That wasn’t quite far enough. You’ll have to dip a little deeper into the sewer to get the thread pulled or locked.
The sewer is where you are, we aren’t going that low.
Just go away.
Mitt shines! Absolutely first rate. Mitt is going to take this thing. I’ve thought that since the first debate.
Yeah! I thought so too, but I didn’t like him then, lol... he won me over.
That's a statement worthy of Bill Clinton. No, he never uses the words "pro-choice" or "Roe." Instead he says:
"The ultimate decision must be made by the women."
Which is exactly what "pro-choice" means, and in substance it's exactly what Roe says.
You're in serious denial, my friend.
Secondly, Thompson has a reliable and unflappable RECORD of consistently pro-life votes.
So like Romney, he's come over to our side and become pro-life. Good for him.
That is why he has gotten the endorsement of the NRLC and various state pro-life organizations.
Good for him. Still doesn't change the fact that he was for abortion before he was against. it.
In contrast, Romney has explicitly demonstrated his disregard for life by being pro-choice,
No contrast. Thompson was no less pro-choice than Romney. If you're still in denial, let me quote Thompson again:
"The ultimate decision must be made by the women."
but (more importantly) his disregard for the constitution in stating that abortion is a constitutionally protected right.
Thompson did the same thing, though again, using very careful and slippery wording:
"The Supreme Court has attempted to delineate the constitutionally appropriate roles for individual and governmental decision-making on the issue of abortion. Beyond that, I believe that the federal government should not interfere with individual convictions and actions in this area."
Very slippery. Never mentions anything about constitutional rights, but at the same time, he very clearly endorses a whole slew of SCOTUS decisions that explicitly say abortion is a constitutional right.
Romney can't hold a candle to Thompson when it comes to slickness.
Agreed.
Apparently when he was ahead in Iowa all was well and good, then his numbers collapse and Christians are blamed for being religious bigots?
Whatever Mitt. Play the victim card all you want. I don’t support you because you are essentially John Kerry, only you kept the one wife.
When the elites present for me a CONSERVATIVE mormon, then I’ll consider them for the presidency. Until then I’ll give Mitt no more respect then I do CHRISTIAN Huckabee, CATHOLIC Rudy, and whatever he calls himself mccain.
If that opinion bothers some folks here, too bad. hewitt’s the one that played the Mormon card first with his book so I’m cynical. I think the campaign’s been trying to avoid his RECORD by making this more of an issue then the fact the state that elected Kerry and kennedy and forced gay marriage down people’s throats elected romney. I’m not biting.
I don't see that quote in here. He does say "I believe states should have the right to restrict abortion as they see fit." This means he is against Roe, which says the exact opposite.
Your entire argument rests on that one quote, which I cannot find in here. Nor do you cite it in context. Nor does the article you link to cite it in context. That, my friend, is slippery.
So lying for Mormonism is okay?... Do you as a professed Catholic believe The Creator God Almighty has a physical body other than Jesus Christ? Mormons do ...
“Typical of a deceitful mormonism apologist to try and obfuscate that Mormonism teaches God the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth was once a man in a fleshly body who became exalted through His own efforts at maintaining righteous behavior ...”
That is not the doctrine of the church and you have had that made clear to you time and again, so it hard for me to not see YOU as the one being deceitful, on this and many other issues.
Clearly you are terribly upset that Mitt hit this out of the park. I think you better get used to that feeling.
Why should I be concerned about this? As long as Mormons don't believe in killing puppies and/or infidels, I'm really fine with it.
Paul wrote that Jesus was the “firstborn of every creature”:
The Father . . . who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, “the firstborn of every creature”. (Colossians 1:12-15)
“God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man ...” (Journal of Discourses).
“As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become” (Millennial Star, Vol. 54).
“Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the eternal father was once a mortal man who passed through the school of earth-life similar to that through which we are now passing. He became God - an exalted being, through obedience to the same eternal gospel truth that we are given opportunity today to obey” (The Gospel Through the Ages : Milton R. Hunter).
“Remember that God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child and mortal like we are and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement: has moved forward and overcome until He has arrived at the point where He now is” (Journal of Discourses).
God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.)
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s..." (D&C 130:22).
God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.)
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345 God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105.)
God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.)
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
“We believe this not because it is the clear teaching of the Bible but because it was the personal experience of the prophet Joseph Smith in his first vision and because the information is further clarified for us in modern revelation.” Craig L. Blomberg and Steven E. Robinson, How Wide the Divide? (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1997), p. 78.
Want more, Grig?
But as a fine theological point: he doesn't believe that Jesus Christ IS God, which is standard Christian doctrine. He also doesn't believe that Jesus Christ was conceived by the divine action of the Holy Spirit. This is a smooth political statement, and it will reassure those who don't need to be concerned about the actual tenets of Mormonism.
And as he says, correctly, these are doctrinal differences between Christianity and Mormonism. Like Hilary being the first woman with a real chance to be elected President, Romney is the first non-Christian (notwithstanding actual devoutness) with a real chance to be elected President. If gender or religion matters to a voter, then neither one of them can change those realities.
I don't think sex or gender should matter. But some voters take those factors into account.
Just logged in! Looks like a lot of favorable reaction around here. It re-airs at 9pm eastern on C-Span2. I can’t wait to see it.
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