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Immigrants trigger Irish rethink[Ireland]
BBC ^ | 07 Dec 2007 | BBC

Posted on 12/14/2007, 3:43:02 PM by BGHater

The great and good of Ireland gathered for a conference this week to discuss how to deal with mass immigration - a relatively new phenomenon in a country more used to seeing its own people leave.

The World Tonight's Paul Moss has been in the Republic of Ireland looking at the impact of immigration.

Siobhan O'Donahue was in a hurry.

Immigrant children at an Irish school
Immigration is changing Irish schools (pic: Educate Together)

Trying to nail her down for an interview, you get the impression this is a permanent state of affairs - rushing from one meeting to another, dealing with a succession of increasingly urgent cases.

The director of a drop-in centre that looks after immigrants in Dublin, Siobhan says they are picking up the problems that nobody has sought fit to deal with: schooling, housing, access to healthcare.

She argues that Ireland invited immigrants to come and work, without giving any thought to their wider impact.

"We saw them essentially as units of labour," she says. "We didn't see them as people with social and community needs.

"The planning and infrastructure wasn't put in place."

And there are plenty of people to cater for. This is a country that had few foreign residents right up until the late 1980s.

But then came an economic boom, and a relatively-poor, agricultural nation became instead the "Celtic Tiger".

They take the money they're earning back out of the country

Dublin local


And to fuel this growth, Ireland decided to allow in workers from the new Eastern European members of the European Union.

The result is that now, more than one in seven people in Ireland was born outside the country.

The largest group are Poles, about 65,000 at the most recent count, but there are Lithuanians, Czechs, and also workers from beyond the EU, from Africa and Asia.

Immigrants' anger

In fact, the percentage of immigrants here rose faster in 10 years than it did in Britain over half a century.

"The entire system has been based on a declining population," says Paul Rowe, the director of an education charity.

Conor Lenihan

There's no one country you can point to that's actually got migration correct

Conor Lenihan
Irish Minister for Integration

"The system is trying to reconfigure itself for expansion in a very short period of time. It is a huge change."

And he should know. Last August, Paul Rowe's charity, Educate Together, had to set up a primary school in just four weeks.

The Education Department had belatedly realised there were not enough places for immigrants' children in the town of Balbriggan.

They had been turned down by the local schools. Like most in Ireland, they are run by the Church, and take Catholic children as a first choice.

The result was that they ended up in an emergency facility, one that caters almost exclusively for boys and girls of African or Arab origin.

"I would rather my children knew how Irish children live," says one mother there, disappointed to see her son going to school only with other black children.

Another was more angry: "They didn't plan it the way it should be," she argues.

"Immigrants are really contributing to the country's economy. They should be provided with the proper amenities."

'Enormous turbulence'

The Irish government insists it takes these complaints seriously.

We have to be calm, we have to avoid getting hysterical - the real test of our society is coming


Fintan O'Toole
Irish Times columnist

This year, it appointed a minister for integration, Conor Lenihan.

He is perfectly frank about the challenges Ireland faces, adjusting so fast and so late in the day to mass immigration. But he also sees an advantage - that Ireland can learn from others' mistakes.

"There's no one country you can point to that's actually got migration correct. There's a great opportunity for Ireland to choose its course," he suggests.

But Mr Lenihan is also aware of the potential tensions if Ireland experiences a downturn, something many economists see on the horizon.

"The real danger is that employers might let go of Irish workers, as opposed to the foreigners, and that could cause enormous turbulence."

Recession 'challenge'

In fact the signs of that turbulence are already apparent. The most thorough European survey of attitudes to immigration showed that Irish people were averagely well-disposed to foreign workers, neither unusually welcoming nor unusually hostile compared to other EU countries.

Government leaflets to help migrants
The Irish government says it is doing its best to welcome migrants

But ask opinion on a Dublin street corner, and you will hear plenty of individuals whose attitude is decidedly resentful.

"They take the money they're earning back out of the country," I was told by one local. "The Irish economy is losing."

"The money's all being given to foreigners," says another. "It's not fair on the Irish public."

Even those who support immigration are apprehensive. The Irish Times columnist Fintan O'Toole believes passionately that the mass arrival of foreigners has benefited his country. But he acknowledges the potential difficulties ahead.

"It's easy to be upbeat and welcoming when the cake is getting bigger all the time. The challenge is when you move into a period of recession.

"We have to be calm, we have to avoid getting hysterical. The real test of our society is coming."

Paul Moss's report was broadcast on The World Tonight, BBC Radio 4, at 2200 BST on Tuesday, 4 October. You can listen again online at



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: immigrants; immigration; ireland; irish
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1 posted on 12/14/2007, 3:43:05 PM by BGHater
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To: BGHater; Colosis; Black Line; Cucullain; SomeguyfromIreland; Youngblood; Fergal; Cian; col kurz; ...

Ireland Ping!


2 posted on 12/14/2007, 3:44:52 PM by Tax-chick (Every committee wants to take over the world.)
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To: BGHater
The Irish government says it is doing its best to welcome migrants

Seems like the only thing governments do right these days is sow the seeds for their own national destruction.
3 posted on 12/14/2007, 3:51:17 PM by SpaceBar
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To: BGHater

Not exactly a new issue. I recall reading an article in emigrant.ie at least 2 years ago discussing the problems of both high legal immigration and illegal aliens in Ireland. Oddly it was right next to an article imploring the US to provide amnesty to illegal aliens from Ireland.


4 posted on 12/14/2007, 3:56:45 PM by DancesWithBolsheviks (If someone is 'turning his life around' you best stay away.)
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To: Tax-chick
A fearless Irish blogger:

http://hiberniagirl.blogspot.com/

5 posted on 12/14/2007, 3:58:59 PM by aculeus
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To: BGHater
My company set up a Service & Support call center in Dublin two years ago. The majority of call representatives were "immigrants" from other EU countries.
A year later we shut the place down because of horrendous job performance, poor attitude and lack of any real work ethic.
6 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:00:25 PM by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Tax-chick
I didn’t know there was an official Ireland Ping List.

May I be added??

7 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:02:46 PM by CT-Freeper (Said the frequently disappointed but ever optimistic Mets fan.)
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To: BGHater

Its not ‘immigration’, its colonization.


8 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:05:17 PM by skeeter
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To: CT-Freeper

You’re added.


9 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:06:53 PM by Tax-chick (Every committee wants to take over the world.)
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To: skeeter
Its not ‘immigration’, its colonization.

That's tagline material.
10 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:11:30 PM by SpaceBar
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To: BGHater
We saw them essentially as units of labour," she says. "We didn't see them as people with social and community needs. "The planning and infrastructure wasn't put in place."

Aptly describes what is happening in the US. Business and the politicial elites want the cheap, exploitable labor, which is subsidized by the taxpayer.

11 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:11:51 PM by kabar
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To: BGHater

There is worldwide mass ‘migration’ taking place. And none of it appears stable.


12 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:13:08 PM by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: SpaceBar

Its the appropriate response to all the pollyannas who wax Lazarusian about the “American Dream”.


13 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:14:19 PM by skeeter
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To: SpaceBar

When will these ‘compassionate’ idiots figure out that they are just another domino waiting to fall?


14 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:14:20 PM by relictele (Clarence White & Don Rich RIP)
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To: BGHater
They take the money they're earning back out of the country

They have Mexicans in Ireland?

15 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:15:51 PM by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: BGHater

Like the thread.


16 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:17:10 PM by IrishMike (Liberalism is Jihad from within)
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To: AuntB
The biggest, peaceful mass migration in history is taking place in the US today. One in every residents of the US is foreign-born, the highest in more than 80 years percentage wise, and within a decade it will be one in seven, the highest it has ever been in our history.

The 1965 Immigration Act: Anatomy of a Disaster

17 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:18:37 PM by kabar
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To: AuntB
Omission: One in every 8 residents of the US today is foreign born.
18 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:20:51 PM by kabar
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To: kabar

“The biggest, peaceful mass migration in history is taking place in the US today”

Mass demonstrations by foreign nationals in our streets, lawsuits against US citizens at every turn, 25 deaths a day....

You call that ‘peaceful’?


19 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:23:09 PM by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: AuntB

Peaceful only in the sense that it wasn’t being done by force by an invading army. And our legal system and immigration policies facilitate the migration [read invasion.] We are committing national suicide.


20 posted on 12/14/2007, 4:26:24 PM by kabar
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