Shooter's Family Meets Relatives Of Arvada Victims

CBS4 Denver ^ | 12 December, 2007 | George Merritt

[marktwain]

DENVER (AP) ―

...... Colorado Springs police on Wednesday said Murray had an assault rifle, a .40-caliber semiautomatic handgun and a 9mm semiautomatic handgun when he entered the church. Investigators found an AK-47 assault rifle in his car and a .22-caliber handgun at his home.

Murray purchased the weapons between Nov. 17 and Sept. 11, four in the Denver area and one in Colorado Springs, police spokesman Skip Arms said.

Arms said 26 rounds had been fired from the Bushmaster assault rifle Murray had with him and one round from the Springfield 9mm.

Arms said Jeanne Assam, the volunteer security guard at New Life who shot and wounded Murray, had a Beretta 9mm semiautomatic handgun and fired a total of 10 rounds.

.....

[marktwain]

For those who wanted information on the specific firearms used in the New Life Church shootings, this is the best that I could find.

[marktwain]

It appears that the Beretta 9mm was sufficient in this case. I wonder if she used an “assault gun” magazine or the “politically correct” 10 round version.

[mountainlyons]

I wonder if the governor blew this one also. He released 98% of the illegals when he was district attorney or what ever he was. Did he blow this case earlier also?

[Bob]

scary looking gun = assault rifle

I wonder if either the AK or the Bushmaster was capable of full auto fire. I've got my doubts.

[basil]

Ping!

[marktwain]

“I wonder if either the AK or the Bushmaster was capable of full auto fire. I’ve got my doubts.”

It is highly unlikely that either of them were. I have seen no evidence of it.

Fully automatic firearms use in crime is even rarer than the use of semiautomatics, which is way, way, less than 1%.

[marktwain]

Fully automatic firearms use in crime is even rarer than the use of semiautomatic rifles, which is way, way, less than 1%.

There, fixed it. I meant to say semiautomatic rifles in the first post.

[El Gato]

Thanks. So a "Bushmaster" is now an "assault rifle". Hmm, AFAIK, Bushmaster doesn't make any select fire versions, and even if they did, it would be post 1986. It says the weapons were *purchased*, not stolen from the police. Thus the Bushmaster had to be a semiautomatic. Thus, by definition, it could not be an "assault rifle", which must be capable of either full automatic or burst fire. (US Military M-16s are now burst fire, but other countries continue to use full auto mode)

So, they lied and we see that the Drive By Media, is now in full league with the hoplophobes.

There are still some questions. What happened to the shotgun, that the press reported the coroner as saying he killed himself with? And if he was killed with a 9mm, how can they tell it was his rather than Ms. Assam's, since both were firing 9mm? I suppose they might have been using different types of bullets, but unless they found one lodged in his brain or somewhere else that was of the type in his Springfield, and was different from what her Beretta was loaded with, I would think it would be very difficult to tell one 9mm wound from another. Interesting that she was carrying a full sized handgun, rather than something a bit more concealable. (I checked, Beretta doesn't make a compact 9mm, only .380 and smaller).

[El Gato]

Hmm, AFAIK, Bushmaster doesn't make any select fire versions

I just checked. They do. However they can't sell them in gun shops, so his still could not have been select fire, unless he illegally modified it.

Since the AK was also newly purchased, and there very few select fire AKs brought legally into the country before '86, it's extremely unlikely it was an "assault rifle" either.

[Concho]

If you would happen to check my wifes purse you would encounter a Beretta Cougar Model 8000D 9mm that uses 15 round magazines. It is very compact, and the larger magazine enables you to get a firm grip on it, because it acts as a grip extension.

Sorry, but they do make a compact...could be what she was carrying. If she was carrying a full size Beretta, she still could have been using a conceal carry purse like my wife uses. She could put a single action .45 in it and you wouldnt know the difference. There isnt any information about where the lady was packing. Of all the pics that I have seen of her on TV, she is a very petite lady and always wearing tight jean. She couldnt hide a quarter in her pocket without it showing through. My guess would be a carry purse, and in that instance, size really wouldnt matter. My wife has carried one of my 1911’s at times.

[Concho]

Just for clarification, the Beretta that lives in this house is a MINI COUGAR 8000F, which is smaller yet than the cougar, and still uses the 15 shot mags. A web search will yeild you lots of info on them. I just needed to clarify that this is the F model and not the D as I first posted.

[JamesA]

Who cares what she was carry’n she knocked the perp down. My wife carries a Smith&Wesson airlite,38sw+p hammerless. very light, easy to slip in a pocket or purse. I favor the heavier Beretta 92fs or les Baer .45

[marktwain]

“Who cares what she was carry’n she knocked the perp down. My wife carries a Smith&Wesson airlite,38sw+p hammerless. very light, easy to slip in a pocket or purse. I favor the heavier Beretta 92fs or les Baer .45”

A lot of people who try to learn from the experiences of others.

She fired 10 shots to stop the carnage. If she had only had a five or six shot revolver, as licensed security guards in Colorado Springs are limited to, she might not have been successful.

[marktwain]

Another reason to care is that the anti-freedom types have been harping for years that “no one needs an assault gun”.

It is very likely that Jeanne’s Beretta had a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds, which would make it an “assault gun” under most of the laws now being proposed.

This shooting points out the usefulness of high capacity defensive guns.

[Gandalf_The_Gray]

Jeanne Assam, the volunteer security guard at New Life who shot and wounded Murray, had a Beretta 9mm semiautomatic handgun and fired a total of 10 rounds.

While the 9mm Parabellum using ball ammo is a bit light on stopping power, modern loadings with appropriate frangible or hollow point bullets have greatly improved it's performance. Assuming Ms. Assam punched Murray ticket more then once, why ten rounds? I would have thought two center of mass and one to the head would suffice. Perhaps Murray was wearing body armor which has escaped mention by the authorities and the media.

In any event she followed an even better rule, keep firring 'till your target is down.

Regards,
GtG

PS Inquiring minds want to know, did Murray shoot himself with the .223, the 9mm, or the .40 cal? Just curious...

[marktwain]

“While the 9mm Parabellum using ball ammo is a bit light on stopping power, modern loadings with appropriate frangible or hollow point bullets have greatly improved it’s performance. Assuming Ms. Assam punched Murray ticket more then once, why ten rounds? I would have thought two center of mass and one to the head would suffice. Perhaps Murray was wearing body armor which has escaped mention by the authorities and the media.”

It appears that she hit him with three of the ten rounds. Two shots to the thigh or thighs, one to the wrist.

It was enough to do the job.

Three shots on target out of 10 is pretty good for a firefight, at least compared to most police.