Posted on 12/19/2007 4:17:22 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
President thanks US for submarines
12/18/2007
President Chen Shui-bian thanked the U.S. government Tuesday for approving the sale of eight diesel-electric submarines to Taiwan.
Chen made the remarks at the Tsoying naval base in the southern port city of Kaohsiung. The base was marking 20 years of service by two improved Zwaardvis-class submarines.
Chen said that Taiwan's trade relies much on shipping. Should China launch a naval blockade, Chen said Taiwan's lifeline would suffer greatly.
Taiwan is trying to acquire eight new submarines from the United States after gaining legislative approval for a two billion Taiwan dollar (61.54 million US) "assessment fee" last week. The submarine deal, offered by US President George W. Bush in April 2001, is part of an arms procurement bill scaled down from an original 512 billion NT dollars. It also calls for the purchase of six PAC-3 Patriot systems and 12 P-3C anti-submarine aircraft.
Taiwan navy's submarine fleet currently consists of two 50-year-old Guppy-class diesel-electric boats, both in very poor condition, and two Dutch-made submarines commissioned in 1987/88.
Who makes the D.E. subs here in the US?
Electric Boat Corp, Litton Ingalls Shipbuilding and a couple others.
I thought that we were going to sell them the old Barbel class boats.
Nobody. The U.S hasn't made a non-nuclear powered sub for 50 years.
I thought they were made in Germany...
If Germany would transfer subs or technology to Taiwan,then the US wouldn’t have needed to get involved in the first place.
The sub design that would make most sense for Taiwan right now would be the Spanish S-80 class,which features an American built combat system,US designed AIP etc.
I don’t think Germany has agreed to build them because they’re afraid of angering China. But a lot of countries build advanced diesel-electric subs. South Korea has just finished building several for their own navy. I would think that they could be a likely source for Taiwanese subs. The U.S. hasn’t built a diesel-electric sub for decades, and that isn’t a skill that you just pick up overnight.
I read that Germany might be the source of d/e submarines but was concerned about blowback from the PRC.
South Korea,like several nations has built subs,but not designed or launched one of it’s own.It won’t be able to export it’s subs without clearance from the Germans.
Earlier this year South Korea announced plans to build a locally designed sub in the 3000 ton range. An order from Taiwan could make the subs more cost effective for both sides. And delivery would probably be faster than a U.S. designed sub would be.
Well that’s someway into the future-as far as I know,the design has not been finalised,so delivery to an export customer would take time in fact,probably more time than a US yard would take to build an established design.
Then there is the whole issue of Seoul’s ties to China-trade is huge & most importantly,China holds the levers to power in Pyongyang.
As you pointed out building to an established design would require the approval of the designing country. Germany, Sweden, Italy, France, Russia, South Korea, Japan, and China are the primary builders and I don't see any of them allowing the U.S. to build to one of their designs for Taiwan. Spain is building to a French design so I don't see them as a supplier. So that means starting from scratch. Electric Boat and Newport News are the only builders of subs in the U.S. Neither has built a diesel sub for decades, and both are involved in construction of U.S. nuclear subs so I don't think either one has excess slipways or production capacity. Ingalls and Bath are the builders of surface ships, and neither one has sub experience. Building diesel subs here, to a U.S. design, would be time consuming and expensive. It would require massive subsidies on the part of the U.S. to entice a company like Electric Boat to invest in the infrastructure needed to build a limited number of diesel subs, and which wouldn't be of much use after they were done. With what the subs would cost you might as well gold-plate them while you're at it.
The Spanish S-80 is not a French design-it is based on the joint Spanish-French ‘Scorpene’ sub.Both nations has shared the construction of boats for Malaysia & Chile,though the French are the ones with a majority stake.The S-80’s internals are almost completely different from that of the Scorpene with high American content.Sure,the Spanish may have their issues as well,but that’s one boat which the US can think of yanking away.
Well then it’s a question of how many billions of U.S. dollars will it take to convince Electric Boat or Grumman to take the job on. Frankly, if these boats are in the water in 10 years I’d be very surprised.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.