Posted on 12/23/2007 9:04:47 PM PST by Wiz
December 23, 2007: A U.S. firm (UTC Power) is teaming with Spanish submarine builder Navantia to produce 300 kilowatt fuel cells for the new S-80 submarines AIP (Air-Independent Propulsion) system. The UTC fuel cell design uses ethanol and pure oxygen. There are several other fuel cell designs out there, and AIP is becoming increasingly popular. It costs another $200 million or so to turn a half billion dollar diesel-electric sub into an AIP model that can stay underwater for a week or more at a time. This gives non-nuclear boats the same underwater endurance edge that nuclear powered boats have long possessed.
ping
No, it doesn't.
how quiet?
“This gives non-nuclear boats the same underwater endurance edge that nuclear powered boats have long possessed.”
Wow, talk about playing loose with the facts!
A week is a bit less than six months.
How quiet?
Nuc minus the circulating pumps.
IOW, Deathly quiet, although with reverse audio on US/UK probably FR, PRC and RUS boats, bad guys can’t hear the circ pumps these days.
I’m actually a fan of DE boats, and I think the US needs a couple of dozen of them, but the case can be made using realistic claims.
OTOH, a week may very well be "good enough" for 99.9% of all real needs.
Sounds like a very destabilizing technology to me. A lot of second tier countries are now able to match the capabilities of major powers.
Especially since it looks like a week is more than good enough for a surprise attack or to thwart the fleet of a major power far from home. Think about how the Falkland Islands war might have turned out if Argentina had even two or three of these.
I have been watching Pakistan develop there Augusta 90B with interest for several years. How quiet are these boats? Can we easily detect them? Obviously Osama wants the whole shebang and all that means.
If this is general knowledge I’d like to know.
Diesel Engine will be history as Fuel Cell will be the major source of power. Germany already has their own version. It’s cheaper to build than Nuclear submarines. The Navy seems to not like these non-nuclear submarines, but mass production of these cheap submarines may give more coverage in quantity, and give more jobs to the submarine building industries. I still believe in the quality of nuclear submarines, but I think a hi-lo mix of nuclear and fuel cell submarines just like a hi-lo mix of F-22 and F-35 will give a harmony of quality and quantity.
With the deteriorating situation in South America, the US needs some small DE boats to patrol the Caribbean, Gulf and Eastern Pacific.
The Pakistani Agosta-90Bs use the MESMA AIP system where liquid oxygen is mixed with ethanol.It produces considerable power,but has a higher rate of oxygen usage,so it’s endurance would be limited compared to other AIP systems.The standard endurance for the MESMA is given at around 4 times that of a conventional D/E sub-so it might be able to stay under for upto 10 days or more.
You would assume that it would also use it’s batteries in between.These subs would be difficult to detect once they are on battery/AIP mode-more so since their primary area of operation would be the Arabian Sea,the saline/temperature/weather characteristics have made anti-sub exercises a hard job for all navies out there.
The Pakis supposedly plan to fit their Babur cruise missile to these boats.With a range of 300 miles & capable of carrying a N-warhead(probably with Chinese help),these subs can be one very uncomfortable enemy.
BTW-the only thing Pakistani about the Agosta-90B is that they are building it.It’s a French design with French technology.And before you jump on the French!!,Earlier Pakistani Agosta class ships were fitted with Harpoon missiles.
Thanks for the details.
Since this particular combatant is comfortable going Kamikaze I see these as an irresistible weapon choice he’ll try to acquire. The only comfort I find is that they often blow themselves up by incompetence. Lets hope they are all together when that happens.
answer - nope.
“This gives non-nuclear boats the same underwater endurance edge that nuclear powered boats have long possessed.”
Some how, the numbers don’t quite add up
1 week =/- 6 +/- months
There is no general knowledge. We don't talk about submarines, ever.
What about Walther cycle propulsion?
Pakistan’ sub force is excellent by most standards.They have starved their surface navy to keep their subs well equipped.A Paki sub scored the 1st kill of a surface ship after the 2nd world war.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.