Posted on 12/29/2007 2:38:13 PM PST by joan
And... we are struggling NOT TO enter EU...
About 12 years ago, I met a young lady who was later explained to be a "slave" of an older Romanian man. The girl who had brought her to the restaurant had gotten the police involved. Arrests were made, and it was revealed that she was turned over by the parents to this particular fellow, who fled back to Romania with the girl as soon as he got out on bail. We never heard from them again.
The girl who had turned them in was subjected to death threats which ended after the guy fled the country.
In a poor country like this the family ties are strong. The children who are left behind are taken care of by their own blood.Not by strangers. I don’t see such a big deal here.
If there wasnt a history of such terrible conditions for children in state care, there might not be such an outcry.
Do you mean they are just passing through Serbia on their way between western EU countries and Romania or are they actually working in Serbia?
I heard there was a significant Serb population in western Romania. Do you know anything of them?
They stay in Serbia. They are mostly Romanians, not Serbians and they work worst kind of jobs, even makind heavy robberies and murders. Well, like illegal immigration. They work worst kind of jobs that no one in Serbia want, like cleaning cesspools, heavy field works. They are coming in spring, stay over till fall and head back into Romania for winter. Problem with Romanian children goes back. They, are Europe’s most neglected children. During communism, Ceausescu forced women to give birth to children, prohibiting pills and condoms or abortion: “The 1966 decree In 1966, the Ceausescu regime reversed the 1957 decree permitting abortion, and introduced other policies to increase birth rate and fertility rate - including a special tax amounting to between ten and twenty percent on the incomes of men and women who remained childless after the age of twenty-five, whether married or single. Abortion was permitted only in cases where the woman in question was over forty-two, or already the mother of four (later five) children. Mothers of at least five children would be entitled to significant benefits, while mothers of at least ten children were declared heroine mothers receiving a gold medal, a free car, free transportation on trains, etc.; few women ever sought this status, the average Romanian family having two to three children (see Demographics of Romania).[5] Furthermore, a considerable number of women either died or were maimed during clandestine abortions.[6] The government also targeted rising divorce rates and made divorce much more difficult - it was decreed that a marriage could be dissolved only in exceptional cases. By the late 1960s, the population began to swell, accompanied by rising poverty and increased homelessness (street children) in the urban areas. In turn, a new problem was created by uncontrollable child abandonment, which swelled the orphanage population (See Cighid) and facilitated a rampant AIDS epidemic in the late 1980s - created by the regime’s refusal to acknowledge the existence of the disease, and its unwillingness to allow for any HIV test to be carried out.[7]” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C5%9Fescu This was baicly good, but there was no leadership of Church in family matters, no guidance of any kind, just give birth to children, and that was it. Also large number of illegitimate children were left at the orphanages, and after collapse of communism they were left to loom troughout country Even today there are gangs of children living in Bucharest’s sewers system. Tragic. And they are member of EU! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/19/wbuch19.xml
This is indeed interesting. I wonder how a poorhouse like Serbia with a unemployment-rate of 31.6% can afford to employ field and construction workers from Romania. The average Romanian (although this is also a poorhouse) earns twice as much as the average Serbian. The Serbian bounteousness somehow heartbreaking to me . They employ Romanian professors and doctors (who earn twice as much as their Serbian colleagues) on their fields while 30% of their own population are below the poverty line (and that means hunger in a nation like Serbia).
If we compare the economies of both countries:
Serbia
GDP - per capita (PPP): $4,400 for Serbia (including Kosovo) (2005 est.)
Unemployment rate: 31.6%
Inflation rate (consumer prices): 15.5% (2005 est.)
Romania
GDP - per capita (PPP): $9,100 (2006 est.)
Unemployment rate: 6.1% (2006 est.)
Inflation rate (consumer prices): 6.6% (2006 est.)
Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rb.html#Econ
The thing is that the important nations of the EU do not want to have Serbia in their club as long as it is what it is. We have for sure enough problems to integrate Romanians who are twice as wealthy as Serbians into our system. Therefore you can be convinced that we are really not interested. For economical and political reasons someone like me would even prefer Turkey (which is also a much more prosperous country than Serbia) as a member although I think that the EU is big enough anyway. Everyone knows that it is rather the other way around to what you are saying... ...the majority of the Serbs probably is dreaming of being member in the EU for understandable reasons.
I understand that you are proud of your nation. Everyone here in FR is. Nevertheless it is dumb propaganda to distort the simple facts.
BTW - The EU is not accountable for the poverty in Romania and in Serbia. Their misery is self made. A long history of incompetent leaders.
Man... we do not want to go to EU.
We did not wantet europe when it was Hitlers ally, nor when they were Stalins ally, nor now when they are Arabs allies...
Concidering Romania...
lik this... statistic is such a fine art..
Rich people are eating sausages, poor are eating beans, but, statistics says that Romanians are eating Beans with sausages- in average... :)
Romania's top exports are construction workers, orphans, and prostis/porn actresses. The only "poor white" immigrants I saw while in Spain recently were from, you guessed it, Romania, both Romanian and ethnic Rom. The latter of which, btw, have gotten into scuffles with their Spanish-born gypsy cousins (who still live in shanty towns, even in Spain and France).
Its a sad country and a sad situation. The Nikolai effect will take decades to be even partially erased.
It's not that simple. Communism's 70-year hiatus from humanity has utterly erased any sense of know-how or individual achievement in the worst of the former Eastern Bloc nations. Of the old Stalinist states, Romania was by far the dreariest, poorest, most corrupt, and hopelessly dismal. Anyone with a lick of sense or talent has long fled somewhere else for a better chance. Life is as cheap as coal dust there, too.
Romania today is a nation without anyone who is qualified to do anything worthwhile. They are so messed up they make Mexico look like Switzerland by comparison.
Even if you had someone there with the idea, the notion, the gumption, and the elbow grease to strive to make things better, they'd be ground to dust by the crime and graft and violence and hopelessness that is Romania's gross domestic product. I will take them 100 years before they're even at the level that former Communist neighbors Hungary and the new Czech Republic are at right now.
Are we? One thing is for sure: We are no ally of Serbs like Milosevic, Karadzic or Mladic since we learned out of our bloody and idiotic alliances with Hitler and Stalin.
It is up to Serbia in the long run if it wants to be a member in the civilized word or not. You are free to do whatever you want since you lost your ability to subjugate your neighbors. Serbia is no threat anymore and if it continues to act like it acts in the moment it will never be a threat again.
Concidering Romania... lik this... statistic is such a fine art.. Rich people are eating sausages, poor are eating beans, but, statistics says that Romanians are eating Beans with sausages- in average... :)
After all I am eating rump steak. ;)
Seriously - I have been to Romania last November doing some business there. My impression is that their economy is in a sharp upward movement. Although I am mainly employed as a architect and a civil engineer for a city council here in south-western Germany I still do some private business for the company of my family. In this coherence I sold lots of heavy construction machinery to Romania over the past decade and I was able to watch the development there. There is still lots of corruption and the ordinary people have many difficulties, but it has gotten much better. In the moment they still earn simply too little to make a worthy living. Nevertheless there is some light on the end of the road, since the country is in a boom.
Simply read the CIA-factbook:
.........................................................
Romania began the transition from Communism in 1989 with a largely obsolete industrial base and a pattern of output unsuited to the country's needs. The country emerged in 2000 from a punishing three-year recession thanks to strong demand in EU export markets. Despite the global slowdown in 2001-02, strong domestic activity in construction, agriculture, and consumption have kept GDP growth above 4%. However, macroeconomic gains have only recently started to spur creation of a middle class and address Romania's widespread poverty, while corruption and red tape continue to handicap the business environment. Romanian government confidence in continuing disinflation was underscored by its currency revaluation in 2005, making 10,000 "old" lei equal 1 "new" leu. The economy grew at 6.4% in 2006, the strongest growth in the last decade. Romania joined the European Union on 1 January 2007, and the IMF has praised the country's recent reform efforts in preparation for EU accession.
...........................................................
If there would be not the EU as a market for Romanian goods there would be no boom either in Romania. Therefore we can say that Romania has a immense benefit from its EU-membership. Love it or hate it.
We all know that the economy is much worse in Serbia. This is no wonder due to 10 years of Milosevic mismanagement, the lost war against NATO and the lack of markets for Serbian goods. Most of the country is completely dependable from money send by Serbian expats that live in Germany. Your provinces try to leave "Jugoslavia" behind. And I am not only talking about the old "Jugoslavia". Montenegro left and Kosovo might leave soon.
As I said - your problems are completely self-made. We Europeans are forced to secure your former war zones. That costs us money and material. Even a few of your soldiers lost their lives because of your BS. Therefore you are well advised to shut up about the "evil" EU. Even if you Serbs ever will stand on your own feet again one fine day you will be completely dependable to the access to our EU domestic market (If you think that you can do without the EU, simply ask Putin for help. Have fun!).
In attachment to what Iw said earlier, There are citizens of Serbia (Serbs and Romanians) that are going to Coledges in Romania to get their Master or Bachelor degrees in various fields, from Music, to medicine.
Why? Biribe. Romanian teachers and professors are easy biribed and there is no problem to get your degree.
Kinda going from US to Preuu to get one...
That country was devastated by communism, and finished-up by “transition”....
Man, we in Serbia were under embargo, civil war,NATO war, and after all our economy is better than Romanian!
Figures on paper are showing that Romania is doing just great!
But so did ENRONs papers....
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