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To: Cicero
I doubt whether Bhutto actually had much real influence, because events were already snowballing and clinton was making his plans

Agreed. After all the arms embargo was NOT lifted. More's the pity. I remember thinking as far back as the end of the elder Bush's admin that this embargo was a bad idea. If it had been lifted then it might have obviated the need for Bosnian Muslims to turn to foreign jihadists, or at least reduced the ability of jihadists to establish themselves in the Balkans, and it would certainly have earlier and more forcefully confronted the Serbs, and those trying to maintain or reimpose the Yugoslav hegemony, with the reality of their limited means.

Actually a bit hard to say on the later point. Milosevic and his allies were pretty stubbornly stupid. They refused to get the point no matter how many wars they lost. But there was a good chance anyway that, by giving locals the means to defend themselves, the conflicts would have sorted themselves out far more quickly, and that we (U.S., NATO, U.N.) would not therefore have needed to intervene.

On reflection it seems to me that arms embargoes are a bad idea, and counterproductive to their stated aim, more often than not.

6 posted on 12/30/2007 3:06:28 PM PST by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: Stultis
The arms embargo was overcome by heavy smuggling, done under the UN and NATO countries, which was happening before and during the war.

NATO patrols and ships allowed these arms to go through and they were enormous. The Bosnian Muslims and Croats became extremely well equipped during the so-called arms embargos. Additionally the foreign Mujahadeen were coming already from the start of the war in spring of 1992. There are even photos of them in Bosnia the summer of 1992 and reported fights with the UN.

Many of the arms were coming in from "charities" and mercenaries were often "retired" British and other NATO country soldiers who liasoned with the UN British contigent there. The UN was aiding the Muslims and spying and sabotaging the Serbs.

The Yugoslav army pulled out in late June 1992 and left the airport to the UN on condition it be used for humanitarian purposes only. Instead it was used to bring in arms and fighters.

Don't say that the international community wasn't doing anything when they were acting the whole time on behalf of the Muslims and propaganda purposes.

Then you had the Bosnian Muslim president, Alija Izetbegovic, who had been jailed years before the war for seeking out Islamic countries' help for the Bosnian Muslims. He wrote a book about how Muslims couldn't co-exist with others within a state and eventually they needed to take full control.

7 posted on 12/30/2007 5:26:54 PM PST by joan
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