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To: ovrtaxt
Let’s ask this question- since when are free landowners obligated to pay tribute in order to possess something that they own free and clear?

That's an excellent point -- but keep this in mind:

The minute you build or buy a house with a driveway on a paved street, with public utilities providing you with all the comforts of modern life, with a fire hydrant on the next corner and a fire department ready to answer a call to your address, a 911 system with a police department ready to address any emergency in your home, a public school system to educate baby-sit your childern, etc. . . . I think it's safe to say that the notion that you own your property "free and clear" is a delusional pipe-dream.

19 posted on 01/09/2008 4:16:56 AM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: Alberta's Child

And what if I don’t want any of that? Or what if I’m willing to pay for is as I need it?

We homeschool our kids, I own forearms and I carry fire insurance. I pay road taxes when I buy gas.

As it is now, am I a free man? Thomas Jefferson wouldn’t think so.


22 posted on 01/09/2008 4:21:05 AM PST by ovrtaxt (People seemed to be content, $50 paid the rent, FREAKS WERE IN A CIRCUS TENT, Those were the days.)
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To: Alberta's Child
The minute you build or buy a house with a driveway on a paved street, with public utilities providing you with all the comforts of modern life, with a fire hydrant on the next corner and a fire department ready to answer a call to your address, a 911 system with a police department ready to address any emergency in your home, a public school system to educate baby-sit your childern, etc. . . . I think it's safe to say that the notion that you own your property "free and clear" is a delusional pipe-dream.

Alternatively, what would be the value of a $500,000 house if it were sitting in a clearing in the woods without any of those? What price would the Market support? Loose change. One WOULD own it free and clear, of course, because no one else would want it.

34 posted on 01/09/2008 4:58:35 AM PST by Gorzaloon
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To: Alberta's Child
The minute you build or buy a house with a driveway on a paved street, with public utilities providing you with all the comforts of modern life, with a fire hydrant on the next corner and a fire department ready to answer a call to your address, a 911 system with a police department ready to address any emergency in your home, a public school system to educate baby-sit your childern, etc. . . . I think it's safe to say that the notion that you own your property "free and clear" is a delusional pipe-dream.

While I tend to agree with you that a government does have its place, and there has to be some sort of tax(es) to pay for it, I would note that when I was growing up on Long Island about 20 miles east of Manhattan, we had all those things you mention. (except the 911 system, but we did have garbage collection, snow plowing, water, &c.) But back then I would guess that property taxes were a much lower percentage of a family's annual expenditures and there were no sales taxes at all. Now on LI, it's 8% or more. Income tax did exist then but at rates probably a fifth of what they are today. The old woman in question probably wouldn't have had to pretend to work someplace for three quarters of the year (Do the math: 12000/7) in order that she could remain in her house.

ML/NJ

35 posted on 01/09/2008 5:19:27 AM PST by ml/nj
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