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1 posted on 01/12/2008 2:05:03 AM PST by Tahts-a-dats-ago
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago

>>
“...the text and history of the Second Amendment point to a more flexible standard of review...”
>>

Career lawyers at Justice have to cavil over verbage to protect machine gun bans and other military-grade type weapons.

Wouldn’t want any of those Islamo-Fascists getting a hold of serious hardware, now would we! /sarc


2 posted on 01/12/2008 2:15:36 AM PST by SatinDoll (Fredhead and proud of it!)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago
From a quick look at this, it does appear that our Justice Department is indeed arguing in favor of gun control.

The good news is it does acknowledge that the Second Amendment is an individual right; the bad news is that it appears to go wholesale against the plain language of "shall not be infringed."

3 posted on 01/12/2008 2:27:50 AM PST by snowsislander
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago
" ... the legal position of the US is that DC CIrcuit was wrong, a complete ban on handguns is NOT per se unconstitutional, it all depends on how good a reason DC can prove for it."


Let me guess ...

half of the population is under the influence of drugs, and the other half is under the influence of crooked and deviate politicians?


Lock & load

6 posted on 01/12/2008 3:55:32 AM PST by G.Mason (And what is intelligence if not the craft of out-thinking our adversaries?)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago
Instapundit.com's take

"WHY VOTE REPUBLICAN? Bush DOJ betrays gun rights. "There was a saying during my years in DC that the GOP operated on two principles: screw your friends and appease your enemies. Yup." Is this too harsh? Possibly, but Dave Hardy would know, wouldn't he?"

8 posted on 01/12/2008 4:02:34 AM PST by Leisler
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago
There was a saying during my years in DC that the GOP operated on two principles: screw your friends and appease your enemies. Yup.
10 posted on 01/12/2008 4:21:58 AM PST by LTCJ
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago
...a complete ban on handguns is NOT per se unconstitutional, it all depends on how good a reason DC can prove for it...

You are an idiot, you are banned from ever speaking in DC.

"It depends on what the meaning if "is" is."

12 posted on 01/12/2008 5:21:22 AM PST by CPOSharky (Energy plan: Build refineries and nuke plants, drill for our oil, mine our coal.)
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ...
Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!
13 posted on 01/12/2008 5:35:17 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago

Looks like I need to buy more powder and primers. Looks like I’m gonna need them come March...


18 posted on 01/12/2008 6:46:51 AM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago

Ours is changing from a government “of the people, by the people, for the people” to “for controlling the pesky little people”. The transition is nearly complete. I hope the Supreme Court chooses wisely.


20 posted on 01/12/2008 6:51:08 AM PST by PreciousLiberty
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago

This is the first time in almost a century where the 2nd Amendment goes to the Supreme Court for a fundamental challenge and we are lucky enough to have a Republican Administration. So how does that administration respond? They support the gun grabbers! Part B of the summary almost looks like something the Clinton Administration would have written! This is something I didn’t expect.


21 posted on 01/12/2008 7:01:16 AM PST by burzum (None shall see me, though my battlecry may give me away -Minsc)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago

I would think that they would need to apply super-strict scrutiny, not just strict scrutiny, as it’s dealing with a situation involving prior restraint on a fundamental constitutional right.

But then, arguments in favor of the DC ban tend to be legally and logically ridiculous anyway.


24 posted on 01/12/2008 7:20:31 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago
Finally, somebody understands the purpose of the second amendment - and they're scared!
25 posted on 01/12/2008 7:21:12 AM PST by meyer (Illegal Immigration - The profits are privatized, the costs are socialized.)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago

“governments interest”????


26 posted on 01/12/2008 7:21:22 AM PST by School of Rational Thought (Truthism Watch)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago
No big surprise to me. Bush said during his first campaign that he would sign a renewal of the AWB if Congress sent it to his desk. We all voted for him anyway because the other side was much worse on the RKBA issue and everything else. But look what that got us, the Bush DOJ going to bat for the gungrabbers before the SCOTUS!!

I'll keep saying this until next November if I live that long, NO MORE RINOS, NOT NOW NOT EVER!!. And if RINORudy the NYC gungrabber is nominated he won't get my vote no matter how cleverly he uses weasel-words on the issue now that he needs more than NYC liberals to vote for him. I won't vote for a gungrabber again whether or not he or she is a little better than the opposition on other issues.

31 posted on 01/12/2008 8:26:53 AM PST by epow (Isn't it odd how hard working people seem to get all the lucky breaks?)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago

predictable.

it is beltway disease.

The government is about controlling public behavior en masse. It is against individual rights as sure as a leopard has spots.

The could could easily give the strict scrutiny standard and allow it to stand.

The fact the Justice Dept is going to the “change the standard approach” suggests the only avenue to attack the lower court is to change the standard since they appear to be giving in on the facts and the ruling under the higher standard.

It is a weak argument.

(of course it could be a bad argument on purpose to satisfy the beltway insiders. a toss away for cya)


33 posted on 01/12/2008 8:37:42 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago

The Bush administration has quietly been one of the most anti-gun ever. They don’t make a big deal of it and publicly sound pro gun while all the time pushing the knife in our back.


37 posted on 01/12/2008 9:02:33 AM PST by yarddog (`)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago

The DOJ never ceases to amaze. They also went to court against the Salvation Army because the SA wanted their employees to speak English.


38 posted on 01/12/2008 9:05:41 AM PST by AuntB (" DON'T LET THE PRESS PICK YOUR CANDIDATE!" Mrs. Duncan Hunter 1/5/08)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago
This is the kind of government the 2nd was intended to protect us against
39 posted on 01/12/2008 9:16:11 AM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago
However, the text and history of the Second Amendment point to a more flexible standard of review."

Ah yes, the Second Amendment's "shall not be infringed" was put there to provide "a more flexible standard".
/S

I wonder if the government will see the laws on paying income taxes as equally "flexible"?

41 posted on 01/12/2008 9:39:33 AM PST by RJL
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To: Tahts-a-dats-ago
Having read this a bit more (though not closely), it appears that a key paragraph occurs on page 28:

1. The heightened judicial scrutiny described above is materially different from the more categorical approaches taken by the district court and the court of appeals.The district court dismissed respondent’s complaint based on the erroneous view that the Second Amendment does not secure any individual right “separate and apart from service in the Militia,” Pet. App. 83a, and thus did not engage in intermediate scrutiny or indeed in any consideration (or fact-finding) on the constitutionality of the D.C. laws. The court of appeals appears to have erred in the opposite direction. Based on its determination that “handguns are ‘Arms’ referred to in the Second Amendment,” the court of appeals appears to have ruled categorically that “it is not open to the District to ban them.” Ibid.; see pp. 21-22, supra.

Well, yes, handguns are clearly arms under the Second Amendment --- it is risible to consider them anything other than a firearm --- and this argument that they are somehow not is Clintonian in my opinion. The Second Amendment says the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and that's what it means, just as the court of appeals correctly held.

It certainly doesn't mean that some court gets to "judicially review" each law in light of whatever happens to suit the justices on that court. The Founders would be aghast to see that bizarre interpretation attached to the clear meaning of the Second Amendment.

On pages 29 and 30, there appears this equally misguided line of thought:

If the Court takes the foundational steps discussed above, there would be virtue in remanding the case for application of a proper standard of review and permitting Second Amendment doctrine to develop in an incremental and prudent fashion as is necessary to decide particular cases that may arise. Allowing lower courts to develop doctrines to address issues concerning the scope of the Second Amendment, its application to a variety of circumstances, and the relevance of particular historical materials has much to recommend it. When lower courts differ as to the proper resolution of concrete and particularized disputes, the Court can grant plenary review and develop the law incrementally, as it does in other contexts. On the other hand, broad-based pronouncements in the context of adjudicating the details of a law that is far from typical could unduly skew the future course of Second Amendment adjudication.

The brief then goes into the DOJ's preferred method for handling each gun law in the U.S.:

3. Applying the heightened judicial scrutiny described above to the specific claims raised by respondent might warrant consideration of additional legal or factual issues that the court of appeals did not need to reach under its analysis. In contending that the challenged D.C. laws unconstitutionally prevent him from possessing functional firearms for personal self-defense in the home, respondent has focused throughout this litigation on the combined effect of the handgun ban and the trigger-lock provision. See J.A. 54a (complaint) (alleging that the challenged D.C.-law provisions violate respondent’s Second Amendment “right to possess a functional, personal firearm, such as a handgun or ordinary long gun (shotgun or rifle) within the home”) (emphasis added); J.A. 57a-58a; Br. in Opp. 2, 18-23 (emphasizing that respondent’s challenge is to combined effect of D.C. laws on handguns and long guns). The determination whether those laws deprive respondent of a functional firearm depends substantially on whether D.C.’s trigger-lock provision, D.C. Code § 7-2507.02, can properly be interpreted (as petitioners contend, see Br. 56) in a manner that allows respondent to possess a functional long gun in his home.8 And if the trigger-lock provision can be construed in such a manner, the courts below would be required to address the factual issue—not fully explored during the prior course of the litigation—whether the firearms that are lawfully available to respondent are significantly less suited to the identified lawful purpose (self-defense in the home) than the type of firearm (i.e., a handgun) that D.C. law bars respondent from possessing.9

To the extent necessary, further consideration of those questions should occur in the lower courts, which would be in the best position to determine, in light of this Court’s exposition of the proper standard of review, whether any fact-finding is necessary, and to place any appropriate limits on any evidentiary proceedings. Moreover, even if the existing record proved to be adequate, initial examination of those issues is typically better reserved for the lower courts. Cf., e.g., Merck KGaA v. Integra Lifescis. I, Ltd ., 545 U.S. 193, 208 (2005).10

CONCLUSION

The Court should affirm that the Second Amendment, no less than other provisions of the Bill of Rights, secures an individual right, and should clarify that the right is subject to the more flexible standard of review described above. If the Court takes those foundational steps, the better course would be to remand.

This is just gun-grabbing by consent of the judiciary, as far as I can see, and I hope that the Supreme Court takes an equally dim view of this. It certainly is not in the spirit of, nor the caliber of, the much better work by Judge Silberman.

The Second Amendment needs no standards of judicial scrutiny of each infringing law to see if it infringes too much by the lights of each court that might exist --- I believe that would simply lead to the Ninth Circus banning all firearms except for some token small-caliber rimfires. Instead, it should be read as plainly as it is written: the right to keep and bear firearms shall not be infringed.

42 posted on 01/12/2008 12:44:31 PM PST by snowsislander
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